longclose
Member Since: 07 Mar 2015
Location: Dorset UK
Posts: 234
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TDV6 preventative big end bearing replacement in situ. |
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So I am looking towards preventative maintenance on ny Disco 3 2008 to avoid the time bomb syndrome of failed crank and bearings, especially in South Africa.
Have replaced big end bearing in situ on m D2 TD5 when I did the head gasket as well as the clutch.
There is a post on the forum that says it is easy to remove sump, so before I adventure into the unknown would like to know if anyone else has undertaken this preventative task on a D3?
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14th Mar 2015 1:21 pm |
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longclose
Member Since: 07 Mar 2015
Location: Dorset UK
Posts: 234
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OK so 97 views but no responses.. surely someone has tried this operation - or will I have to be the first?
I am a newby to the D3 and TDV6, however I am alarmed at the oil filter location on top of the V of the TDV6 engine (almost reminds me of the Triumph stag water pump for those that are old enough).
Oil pick up from sump.. up through to pump... up through to filter fill filter (I would hope it has a one way valve ) ... down though oil gallery into crank... wondered why it took 2-3 seconds for oil light to go out on first fire in the morning.
No one else spotted this.. is this perhaps the cause of the dreaded bearing failure. If so never buy a low mileage TDv6 Chelsea tractor.
Boundry lubrication for 2 + seconds twice a day (school run) for maybe 3 years 300*2*3=1800 half an hour relying on boundry lubrication. Out of warranty.. £5k+ pls from Mr independent.
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15th Mar 2015 7:36 am |
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Gareth
Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26683
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I think you will be the first.
(anyone got a guinea pig icon? 8) )
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15th Mar 2015 7:55 am |
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Gareth
Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26683
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Seriously though, there are plenty of horror stories on here about oil filters that are not fitted correctly, causing crank failure. If the spigot on the filter is not in the socket at the bottom of the housing, the filter gets crushed and hey presto BANG!
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15th Mar 2015 7:58 am |
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longclose
Member Since: 07 Mar 2015
Location: Dorset UK
Posts: 234
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Ok before my potential theory gets bombed out here and on the 4x4 SA forum, could the members, /experts/independents provide a concensus if any vehicles that do day to day do high mileage have experienced crankshaft/bearing failure.
Lets be clear I am referring to vehicles owned from day 1 and serviced with specified oil and service interval. If so it may be possible to statistically identify when bearing failure/slip will occur purely around my boundry lubrication theory. My prevention suggestion then would come into play work for indies and owners who can sleep at night.
I am fed up of Landrover D3/D4 owners being scared to start their cars in the morning for fear of a £5k+ bill. Ok from my perspective great as I just picked up two cheap D3 SE in South Africa (20% cheaper than the UK) because everyone is running scared.
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15th Mar 2015 8:25 am |
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Gareth
Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26683
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I don't have the exact stats, but its a very low failure rate on the grand scheme of things. I personally have had 2 x D3, each one doing in excess of 120k, with just routine servicing, and one of them is still going strong with its new owner 2 years later.
I think that using high quality oil, genuine filter, correctly fitted is all you can do.
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15th Mar 2015 8:46 am |
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Moo
D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13806
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I've owned mine 10 years, 170k on the clock and just routine servicing. New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
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15th Mar 2015 8:55 am |
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L319
Member Since: 14 Dec 2013
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 2079
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I never give a thought, just get in and start the engine. I have run D3s for 10 years now, a variety of vehicle between 30K and 200K and never had a problem. The 200K vehicle took a fraction longer for the oil light to go out if left standing for more than 4 or 5 days, obviously drain back.
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15th Mar 2015 8:56 am |
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stephenw46
Member Since: 22 Jun 2011
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 1152
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139000mls on my clock & sounds sweet so off with the caravan to the south of France and Italy a bit later on in the year
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15th Mar 2015 9:01 am |
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Oswiperus
D3 Decade
Member Since: 02 Apr 2010
Location: Chelmsford, Essex
Posts: 1590
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longclose wrote:
Oil pick up from sump.. up through to pump... up through to filter fill filter (I would hope it has a one way valve ) ... down though oil gallery into crank... wondered why it took 2-3 seconds for oil light to go out on first fire in the morning.
If your oil light is taking 2-3 seconds to go out it needs investigating as that is to long, but I would be looking at the oil filter (as mentioned by Gareth) and the oil pump first. The oil pump could be worn, they are relatively inexpensive and can be replaced when the cam belt is being replaced.
I know of someone who fitted a filter incorrectly(Not me honest) and had the oil light come on while driving, the vehicle was recovered and a new filter fitted correctly but who knows how much wear/ damage was caused so that engine could be a ticking timebomb. Other people have notice oil light taking longer to go off after a service and found an incorrectly fitted crushed filter. It is easy to do if you don't have the correct info.
Any of us who buy second-hand vehicles have know idea if something like has happened in the past. It may be possible that a fair number of these crank/bearing failures are due to issues such as an incorrectly fitted filter in earlier life.
Stu.
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15th Mar 2015 9:06 am |
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Nodge68
Member Since: 05 Sep 2014
Location: Newquay
Posts: 1014
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Re: TDV6 preventative big end bearing replacement in situ. |
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longclose wrote:So I am looking towards preventative maintenance on ny Disco 3 2008 to avoid the time bomb syndrome of failed crank and bearings, especially in South Africa.
Have replaced big end bearing in situ on m D2 TD5 when I did the head gasket as well as the clutch.
There is a post on the forum that says it is easy to remove sump, so before I adventure into the unknown would like to know if anyone else has undertaken this preventative task on a D3?
It's possible to change the big end bearings in most engines by dropping the sump, like you would have done on your D2. I can't see why the TDV6 is any different, space might be one restriction though. Main bearings can also be changed on some engines but I don't think this is possible on the TDV6 with bearings 1 and 4. Bearings 2 and 3 could be checked for wear and movement simply by removing the cap bolts and looking. There's no " black magic" with the TDV6 bottom end, it's just a V6.
I've a theory on bearing failure, particularly the big ends. Say a main bearing has begun to turn, reducing oil flow to the bearing. The big end or ends fed by that main bearing obviously gets reduced oil flow. This might not be a major problem at low revs as there is enough oil flow to lube the bearing. However if the engine is revved higher than normal, centrifugal force throws the oil out of the big ends. Rev the engine high enough and the oil supplied by the smaller oil way simply isn't enough to protect the either the main or big end bearings. This is where I believe problem starts. I used to run a high revving engine fitted a Hillman Avenger "don't laugh" . This engine did suffer pressure drop at 7500+ Rpm. Running it up to 8500 caused the pressure to drop by 60%. Obviously this wasn't good for the bearings. Interstinglly the mains suffered the most wear. I suspect that the big ends were out stripping the mains of oil due to centrifugal force acting on the oil in the crank drilling. My theory was proved correct by cross drilling the crank. This relatively easy operation maintained oil pressure in the bearings, well above the engines peak power.
Obviously the TDV6 doesn't rev anything like as high as a petrol racing engine but the theory is possibly valid. The TDV6 has a much longer stroke, enhancing the centrifugal effect. The other thing I feel is a problem with the TDV6 is filter location and type. It's paper element mounted at the top of the engine. This is far from ideal if you are looking for oil pressure while cranking. In fact I've not seen a TDV6 extinguish it's oil light until the engine is running. This is not good for any engine "remember the Triumph Six death rattle?" Same type of filter, with daft filter location.
I feel that the TDV6 would be better served oil wise, if the filter was a non return cartridge, mounted on the oil pump housing, like most other engines use. Bearing failure with modern oils simply shouldn't happen.
Just my thoughts on the subject. Freelander SE 2005 Auto.
D3 TDV6. Gone.
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15th Mar 2015 11:13 am |
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stephenw46
Member Since: 22 Jun 2011
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 1152
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As my previous posts says 139000 mls my oil light was taking 4/5 seconds to go out oil pump changed 2/3 seconds can't see any damage being done as the oil is always going to leave a coating on or in the lubrication areas required by the engine, the only way to find out is to fit a oil pressure gauge and testing, but as I've been in the Land Rovers warranty warehouse and looked at the amount of failed parts,I thought what have I done buying a D3 then I am told that they were from all over the world & some of the engines had only been on testing benches I cried as they were being crushed so all in all so many out there running not failing
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15th Mar 2015 11:44 am |
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lynalldiscovery
Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274
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Theres lot and lots of vehicles out there with the same oil filter set up as the D3, ie in the V or high mounted.
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15th Mar 2015 12:38 pm |
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