Oil pump casing tensioner mount. Never mind aluminium, they should make them out of titanium.
17%
17%
[15]
Main bearings. Someone removed them and replaced them with cheese
31%
31%
[27]
Oil filter. Installed by someone with the mechanical abilities of Papa Smurf
10%
10%
[9]
Small rip in the space/time continuum caused the engine to temporarily orbit Venus, and the heat stress melted the heads
40%
40%
[35]
Total Votes: 86
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26701
Good news
26th Apr 2016 9:46 am
Landy_andy
Member Since: 05 May 2013
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 676
Great. Well done
26th Apr 2016 10:45 am
WillyEckerslike
Member Since: 22 Aug 2013
Location: Out in the world
Posts: 967
Thanks guys
In terms of an autopsy, the crank was snapped just in front of the second main bearing journal, and the front main bearing was mangled.....
The belt tensioner attached to the oil pump had bent, and there was lots of metal shavings littered across that side of the oil pump - it looked like the tensioner had caught the oil pump as it span to a stop. The good news though, was that the uprated oil pump survived the failure. They are definitely strong enough now to withstand a catastrophic engine failure.
Didn't get to take pictures, I was up to my elbows in oil at the time.
26th Apr 2016 12:03 pm
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20731
Member Since: 26 Jun 2013
Location: South Australia
Posts: 238
If you believe the likes of hgbosch on 4x4community.co.za, 2.7tdv6's are dying left right and centre with the exact same crank failure in the exact same place. Even 3.0's are affected - a friend of a friend just had the crank snap on his SDV6 D4.
In reality, yes some are suffering this failure, but millions of cars worldwide use the Ford/PSA Lion V6 and even for LR's it just doesn't seem to be very common. Like maybe 1%?2008 RRS TDV6 - Chawton White/Black/Lined Oak - 20's, h/k, sunroof - 350K KM.
2010 Audi A6 3.0T S-Line - Phamtom Black/exclusive 2-tone valcona 184K
2000 Audi A4 avant 1.8t Q Sport - Phantom Black/black 385K KM
1990 Nissan Pintara TRX - red - lots of mods - 439K KM
26th Apr 2016 11:46 pm
WillyEckerslike
Member Since: 22 Aug 2013
Location: Out in the world
Posts: 967
Rich, I've trawled the interwebs over the last couple of days trying to find any information on broken cranks in the other brands that use the same engine, and could not find a single occurrence. That does not mean they don't happen, but clearly the other brands' forums are not filled with tales of woe.
This must mean that there is something exceptional about Land Rover's implementation that causes extra stress, whether it be the extra weight of the vehicle, the permanent 4wd, the extra demand the engine is placed under....I don't know.
The Territory is probably the closest application of the engine implementation, but at 500kg lighter (and still maybe too new to be showing issues yet) is still not that close.
27th Apr 2016 12:39 am
Rich84
Member Since: 26 Jun 2013
Location: South Australia
Posts: 238
There are reports from other makes including a Citroen C6 which snapped the crank in the same spot. Apparently Jags too, but at this point that's only hearsay. I believe the engine seized in a Terri that was being tested by a magazine too! The VAST majority of failures however do seem to be happening in LR's. I am wondering whether the torque converter lockup clutch has anything to do with it. It is fitted with a dampening hub on TDV6's however myself and I'm sure many others have always complained of a high frequency resonance through the car's control surfaces (steering wheel/pedals) coupled by a low growling noise when the lockup clutch is engaged. Now, this is not intrusive at all - no passenger will ever notice or comment on it, but it's there when the lockup clutch is engaged and the engine is under load, ie, driving uphill. When the clutch is not engaged the engine is smooth as butter and none of this vibration/resonance.
To my admittedly untrained eye, it indeed looks like internal and external stresses is causing the crank to suffer from metal fatigue and that is causing it to snap in the weakest spot, which is in the same spot around the edge of the undercut between #2 main and #2 big end. You can see from your own crank how little metal there is there. This is most surprising considering PSA, who we believe to be the principal designers of the engine, are I would regard some of the best diesel engine makers in the world.
I've accepted it and I'll be doing the same thing you have if mine goes and hope that the new engines have this flaw worked out. Written off Territories are cheap.
Mine is still going strong at 249,000km however.2008 RRS TDV6 - Chawton White/Black/Lined Oak - 20's, h/k, sunroof - 350K KM.
2010 Audi A6 3.0T S-Line - Phamtom Black/exclusive 2-tone valcona 184K
2000 Audi A4 avant 1.8t Q Sport - Phantom Black/black 385K KM
1990 Nissan Pintara TRX - red - lots of mods - 439K KM
27th Apr 2016 1:32 am
WillyEckerslike
Member Since: 22 Aug 2013
Location: Out in the world
Posts: 967
In terms of cost, I expect that by the time I've sold the remains of the Territory, the exercise will have cost me no more than about $1000. That includes all replacement fluids and service items.
I can live with that. If that gives me another 7 years life out of it, I think it's a thousand bucks well spent.
But rationalising the reason why LRs have a much larger number of failures is quite easy when I think about it. I reckon that a much larger percentage of D3/D4/RRSs will have been bought with the diesel engine, compared to the Citroën/Peugeot/Jaguar. And they will have had a much harder life, as tow vehicles, genuine off roading, moving a much heavier weight, but also being modified much, much more. Bigger wheels, wider wheels, a plethora of bolt on accessories.
An engine with so much torque on tap, as you say, will find a weak spot somewhere when the newton meters need to escape. It's just a shame that it has to be that spot.
27th Apr 2016 5:57 am
audiobull
Member Since: 23 Apr 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 384
deleted
Last edited by audiobull on 3rd Jun 2016 7:40 pm. Edited 1 time in total
27th Apr 2016 7:01 am
Rich84
Member Since: 26 Jun 2013
Location: South Australia
Posts: 238
audiobull wrote:
Still it does well with that mileage BUT that is the last thing you would expect to just "snap" like that.
Sounds like that's exactly what it does do though... A lot of the engines with snapped cranks were described as having bearings that looked perfect, so it's not really a servicing issue, unless you can somehow blame the transmission servicing.
And yes your point willy is probably a major contributor - the engine does work hard in these cars, even with an empty car you're starting with at least 2.6t kerb weight then adding payload up to 800kg and then you can tow up to 3.5t, you're looking at up to nearly 7 tonne train weight, which is WAY more than the other vehicles with this engine and a fair bit to ask of a 2.7L... As you pointed out probably the nearest car to this configuration is the Territory, and it has nowhere near the weight, payload or tow capacity that the LRs have.2008 RRS TDV6 - Chawton White/Black/Lined Oak - 20's, h/k, sunroof - 350K KM.
2010 Audi A6 3.0T S-Line - Phamtom Black/exclusive 2-tone valcona 184K
2000 Audi A4 avant 1.8t Q Sport - Phantom Black/black 385K KM
1990 Nissan Pintara TRX - red - lots of mods - 439K KM
27th Apr 2016 7:13 am
WillyEckerslike
Member Since: 22 Aug 2013
Location: Out in the world
Posts: 967
Thought I was having a "here we go again" moment today.
Today was the second time the D3 had been driven since the engine change, just because I was leaving it to check for leaks.
Was driving it up one of the local roads about 1.5km from home, with a fair rise to it, the gearbox kicked down, and
BANG..FZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz and all notions of acceleration vanished.
"Oh dearie me", I thought.
I pulled over onto someone's drive and had a hunt around underneath, but could see nothing. I managed to get it pointed back down the hill, and coasted all the way home.
The problem? The air duct (where the intercooler pipe attaches at the front of the engine) had popped off and was hitting the viscous fan. It had popped off because the retaining bracket and bolt from the Ford engine didn't fit that well on the Land Rover timing cover, and consequently hadn't been done up properly.
Ah well. 2 minutes work to rescue the old bracket and bolt and swap them over. I think it'll take longer to clean the mess on the driver's seat though.
The moral of the story is, sometimes you have to resist using a nice shiny new bit. And check every bloody bolt!
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