I do find it kind of fascinating, all this talk of the terrible Tories etc.
It is often (always) the view from the left that Tory or right-wing voters/parties are all in it for themselves. They're all rich and they don't care about anyone else. It is a complete misunderstanding and the truth is that right-wing voters follow such beliefs for everyone's benefit, exactly the same as anyone else. What's more, we all live in the same country, in close proximity to each other, and it is always the case that people who live together share a common interest and thus it is completely wrong to think that the rich simply don't care about the poor, because they both rely on each other and are affected by each other.
A party like Labour simply come along and promise money for the less wealthy, they say they will take it from the wealthy in taxes and distribute it. At face value, that sounds great if you are at the receiving end, but it's not so great when nobody whats to do business in your country, investment isn't available and the rich people have all vamoosed to somewhere with lower taxes. Who, in the end, benefits frorm it then? Nobody does. Likewise, with things like banning zero hours contracts, minimum wage and introducing excessive workers rights; they sound great, but you can't just pass a law to say "living standards are henceforth raised" and expect it just to happen from nowhere. They push up the cost of employing somone until it becomes uneconomical, make the country an anattractive place to do business and thousands of jobs are lost.
When McDonnell stands up and presents his economic policy, what he doesn't say is "We're going to remove your choices, put thousands of you out of work, make you all poorer and reduce your living standards" but that is no less than what would happen if it were put into practice. The promises of left-wing economic policy are all false ones; essentially, they promise to protect people from competition, but that is simply not within their power. The history of communism makes for very sorry reading indeed, so why on earth anyone would want to follow underlying principles that are intrinsically linked (and they are) is beyond me.
When I support a right-wing, libertarian, free-market, free-trade system, it is because it works on the absolute values that humans decide and generates wealth by allowing people the most freedom to engage in mutually beneficial transactions. It works on what we all do, allowing people to help each other and dividing labour in a more efficient manner. It's what has got this nation to its fortunate position of wealth today. It's always because it's to everyone's advantage, rich or poor. Yet we Tories always get flack from the sectarian left who think they can do better with their magic wands and feel they have a monopoly on compassion.
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30th Sep 2016 10:36 am
sacimiddx
Member Since: 09 Mar 2007
Location: hants
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correct
but the left think they own the high moral ground (they don't i'm afraid)Illegitimi Non Carborundum
30th Sep 2016 11:19 am
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23338
[quote="Lost for Words"]
When I support a right-wing, libertarian, free-market, free-trade system, it is because it works on the absolute values that humans decide and generates wealth by allowing people the most freedom to engage in mutually beneficial transactions. It works on what we all do, allowing people to help each other and dividing labour in a more efficient manner.
True wealth is generated by the application of labour (people working - not the party) to materials or providing a service....not the total domain of ant political party believe it or not
The division of labour you state "efficient" in what way - again employment isn't the creation of any one group or sector....but it is harmed when there is a political interference by government (of any persuasion) on industrial relations.....relate to the history of industry since WW2 to gauge this.
Lost for Words wrote:
It's what has got this nation to its fortunate position of wealth today. It's always because it's to everyone's advantage, rich or poor. Yet we Tories always get flack from the sectarian left who think they can do better with their magic wands and feel they have a monopoly on compassion.
The "flack" tories (or more accurately those who assume that voting Conservative makes them something superior) is very well deserved the vast majority of MP's "aren't in this world" to even start to understand even the basics of any understanding of industry, manufacturing technology.....what's galling is the conservative attempts to regulate industry starting with Maggie the Thatcher, & perpetuated by successive Tory leaders in government or otherwise...Cameroooon exemplified this to extraordinaire status......
Lost for Words wrote:
Fortunately for them, it isn't going to stop us voting Tory...
.....
That currently is what's called a parliamentary democracy....we (you - me - those old enough & eligible to vote can listen, watch, read, discuss then make our individual choices.
The end result is what the state of the nation is just before a general election ..... when we can see if words have resulted in actions that fulfill the last elections manifesto promises.....I realise the last set of muppets faded away after referendum that delivered the brilliant Brexit situation....let's see what what we've got now can deliver.
I know this thread is titled Corbyn ....... the guy ought to quit right now even though he got voted in twice...the system of government we have depends heavily on a viable opposition to question & balance discussion.....that currently just isn't there.BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
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10th Feb 2017 10:11 pm
sean 471
Member Since: 26 Apr 2011
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 2990
While we discuss Tories and labour the country's still not in a good place. Not sure any of them earn their corn and think of the country for the long term.
When I support a right-wing, libertarian, free-market, free-trade system, it is because it works on the absolute values that humans decide and generates wealth by allowing people the most freedom to engage in mutually beneficial transactions. It works on what we all do, allowing people to help each other and dividing labour in a more efficient manner.
True wealth is generated by the application of labour (people working - not the party) to materials or providing a service..
Yes and no. Yes, labour gives one wealth, but the level of wealth available is determined by the division of labour and innovation, hence we are much richer today than 100 years ago.
Quote:
..not the total domain of ant political party believe it or not
Indeed, but there are policies that are pro-growth and allow wealth to be created and there are policies that are not. I have no political affiliation but broadly speaking, the Conservatives are the major party with the most conducive policies to wealth creation, while Labour has policies that are more interventionalist and redistributionist, and in the case of the current leadership, genuninely weath destructing.
Quote:
The division of labour you state "efficient" in what way - again employment isn't the creation of any one group or sector....but it is harmed when there is a political interference by government (of any persuasion) on industrial relations.....relate to the history of industry since WW2 to gauge this.
Efficient as in people do what they have a comparative advantage in. They specialise and then exchange their goods and services with each other. It can broadly be summed up as capitalism.
Quote:
Lost for Words wrote:
It's what has got this nation to its fortunate position of wealth today. It's always because it's to everyone's advantage, rich or poor. Yet we Tories always get flack from the sectarian left who think they can do better with their magic wands and feel they have a monopoly on compassion.
The "flack" tories (or more accurately those who assume that voting Conservative makes them something superior)
What do you define as "something superior"? I doubt many Tory voters consider themselves superior for it, but the show of virtue signalling from the left never ends...
Quote:
is very well deserved the vast majority of MP's "aren't in this world" to even start to understand even the basics of any understanding of industry, manufacturing technology.....what's galling is the conservative attempts to regulate industry starting with Maggie the Thatcher, & perpetuated by successive Tory leaders in government or otherwise...Cameroooon exemplified this to extraordinaire status......
This is the exact logic of a free market system - to understand how the required information is of such a nature that it cannot be collated into a top down approach, and thus create a system that utilises the dispersed knowledge.
Lost for Words wrote:
Fortunately for them, it isn't going to stop us voting Tory...
.....
That currently is what's called a parliamentary democracy....we (you - me - those old enough & eligible to vote can listen, watch, read, discuss then make our individual choices.
The end result is what the state of the nation is just before a general election ..... when we can see if words have resulted in actions that fulfill the last elections manifesto promises...[/quote]
It would be marvellous if it worked that well (and other worldly...)! Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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Clearly JC isn't compassionate because he would destroy wealth and make us all poorer. If I were to judge Labour's intentions on it's outcomes I would clearly think them uncompassionate - worse in fact; "They're evil! They want to harm the UK citizens. They want to ruin people's lives with their meddling" - but outcomes don't determine intentions and vice versa. Compassion is only in intentions and all parties intend to do the best for their citizens. Labour is no less compassionate, even though they would like to impose damaging, socialist rule on the country that would destroy people's lives. Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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12th Feb 2017 11:24 am
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
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And the tories, squeezing every single penny they can out of the honest, hard working man, while giving big tax breaks to large corporations, and refusing to do anything about tax havens My D3 Build Thread
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And the tories, squeezing every single penny they can out of the honest, hard working man, while giving big tax breaks to large corporations, and refusing to do anything about tax havens
Encouraging economic activity that makes us all richer and increasing productivity that raises wages.
If you want to see someone who really would squeeze out every last penny, look no further than the current Labour leadership. "Tax the rich" they say - tax the ordinary man, discourage wealth creation and supress the wages of unskilled workers is what it actually results in...Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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