Discowex
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Location: Craggy Island
Posts: 2598
 
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Invaluable info ND 
I'll be quoting this tomorrow when my motor is in for EPB probs.Ive only used it once offroad ( for any length of time) 
Thanks Don't take life too seriously ..... it's not permanent
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 Wed Sep 26 2007 2:01pm |
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NoDo$h
Joined: 02 May 2006
Location: Decapod 10
Posts: 5487
 
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Just a word of caution: My summary of how the EPB appears to fail is based on numerous and often lengthy conversations with LR dealer technicians and LRA technicians. It is possible, likely even,that there are other contributory factors (there's some suspicion that the adjuster slips under certain conditions), but they all lead to the motor exceeding its travel parameters and the assembly clutch coming into play.
Hours of fun.....
Dealer Service Manager is in conversation with LR at the moment. I'll update you later on the outcome. Don't Panic! Everything will be fine.... inflation is only 2.5% 3.0% 3.3% and the flying pigs are carbon neutral 
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| Wed Sep 26 2007 2:18pm |
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DG
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff !
Posts: 13022
 
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They, and anyone else, can give it all the descriptions they want ....truth is it's fecking rubbish ! Powered by............................
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I've been accused of vulgarity. I say that's bullshit 
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| Wed Sep 26 2007 2:22pm |
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NoDo$h
Joined: 02 May 2006
Location: Decapod 10
Posts: 5487
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The people I've spoken with to form that description wouldn't argue with you. Particularly the LRA technician who strips down, cleans and adjusts the EPB on his LRA D3 once a month as previously it was failing every 5-6 weeks. Don't Panic! Everything will be fine.... inflation is only 2.5% 3.0% 3.3% and the flying pigs are carbon neutral
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| Wed Sep 26 2007 2:27pm |
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simon
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Location: You'll never know
Posts: 13669
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NoDo$h wrote:Just a word of caution: My summary of how the EPB appears to fail is based on numerous and often lengthy conversations with LR dealer technicians and LRA technicians. It is possible, likely even,that there are other contributory factors (there's some suspicion that the adjuster slips under certain conditions), but they all lead to the motor exceeding its travel parameters and the assembly clutch coming into play
Its been described here too as to how it works.
The auto adjustment is one of the real issues though, its supposed to take up the slack but doesn't.
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| Wed Sep 26 2007 2:28pm |
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NoDo$h
Joined: 02 May 2006
Location: Decapod 10
Posts: 5487
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It's one of those root-cause conundrums isn't it. Does the adjuster fail because it is having to auto-adjust far more often and to a great extent than originally designed because of motor over-run or is partial failure of the adjuster leading to the motor over-working, putting even more strain on the adjuster?
Regardless of the actual answer, DG summed it up. feckin rubbish! Don't Panic! Everything will be fine.... inflation is only 2.5% 3.0% 3.3% and the flying pigs are carbon neutral
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| Wed Sep 26 2007 2:31pm |
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simon
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Location: You'll never know
Posts: 13669
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ND, you know recently you were keen to buy the ugliest 4x4 you could find ?
Well I found a better one for you that I'm sure will not have EPB issues 
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| Wed Sep 26 2007 2:41pm |
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ronp
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Location: Over the Edge!!
Posts: 3726
 
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My EPB started squeeling a month or so ago.
Dealer charged me for stripping and cleaning.
Raised the issue on this site.
After many comments [and TSB from Simon ]
I challenged the dealer, who then came back and said LR will accept it under warranty [and refund me] ....
...but it won't be a warranty issue shortly???
Have you got this TSB ND? .
Morphy Richards 450w "Dual" Food Processor
[complete with addittional bowl and changeable blades]
Only £19.99 at a store near you!
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 "The BEAST"
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| Wed Sep 26 2007 2:51pm |
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NoDo$h
Joined: 02 May 2006
Location: Decapod 10
Posts: 5487
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Cheers for that Ron.
I don't have the TSB but to be honest I'm not overly interested if Land Rover feel they can duck their responsibilities on this one by telling dealers to charge for these repairs. If they won't accept there is a design issue after I've gone through Customer Care and the MD of LR I'll throw the evidence at VOSA. They may be interested to hear how there are cars out on the UK roads with an inherent weakness in the handbrake, making them technically unroadworthy. 
As you may have gathered, I play to win 
Simon, that's wrong and you know it!  That Audi does have an EPB. What? There's another ugly car in the picture? Don't Panic! Everything will be fine.... inflation is only 2.5% 3.0% 3.3% and the flying pigs are carbon neutral
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| Wed Sep 26 2007 3:18pm |
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simon
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Location: You'll never know
Posts: 13669
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NoDo$h wrote:Simon, that's wrong and you know it! That Audi does have an EPB. What? There's another ugly car in the picture?
Yeah the Merc
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| Wed Sep 26 2007 3:23pm |
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Pelyma
Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Clymping, Sussex
Posts: 4347
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Don't VOSA use D3s? DS3 TDV6 HSE
Silver with Alpacca (old one)
DS3 TDV6 HSE
Silver with Alpacca (new one)
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| Wed Sep 26 2007 3:30pm |
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NoDo$h
Joined: 02 May 2006
Location: Decapod 10
Posts: 5487
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Don't Panic! Everything will be fine.... inflation is only 2.5% 3.0% 3.3% and the flying pigs are carbon neutral
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| Wed Sep 26 2007 3:31pm |
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DG
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff !
Posts: 13022
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...what you need to do also is retitle this thread - "Don't buy a D3" ...or " LR - it's not an off-road vehicle Official" etc etc
....might raise some eyebrows Powered by............................
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I've been accused of vulgarity. I say that's bullshit
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| Wed Sep 26 2007 4:07pm |
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Gareth
Site Moderator
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bob the Builders 'ere
Posts: 9359
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NoDosh, you have my sympathy. I (we) have been here before. The first thing is get your dealer on your side, I am sure they are as frustrated as you.
It is simply not an excuse to blame the failure or bad adustment to be as a result off-road use. Its down to the simple statement 'Fit for Purpose'
More worryingly, is the cases where the brake fails to engage, even though the (P) is showing on the dash, or fails to release properly due to the cables being damaged or corroded. This is dangerous, as an accident or fire could be the result. Silver TDV6 HSE
Pepper White Cooper S Convertible
Old English White MGB GT
Ex Military 109 Series 2a Soft Top
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| Wed Sep 26 2007 5:32pm |
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NoDo$h
Joined: 02 May 2006
Location: Decapod 10
Posts: 5487
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LR's response to the dealer (no mention of the vehicle going offroad, simply that it is regularly driven through a ford of around 12" depth):
"If the car is regularly passing through a ford it should be on the Arduous Service Schedule." and no, I haven't made that up.
The Arduous Service Schedule (We'll call it A.S.S. for short) involves services every 3,750 miles.
Service 1 is an oil change plus strip, clean, adjust and reassemble EPB
Service 2 is all fluids change, plus strip, clean, adust and reassemble EPB
Service 3 as 1, including strip, clean, adjust reassemble EPB
you get the idea.
So Land Rover's official verdict is that the Discovery 3 is not suited to driving through fords on a public highway without being serviced every 3750 miles and specifically that the EPB needs to be serviced more than any other part of the car. In total the service schedule involves 8 x the labour hours of the standard service schedule per mile driven. In the opinion of the dealer this it totally OTT and they are far from happy with the amount of EPB strip/clean/adjusts they do between services for customers, perhaps 10% of all D3s and RRS sold and serviced through them encounter problems between services. They have had to replace the shoes and drum on a couple of cars at 30,000 where they are solely road cars and the dealer does NOT agree that this is acceptable wear and tear on an item that doesn't feature in any service schedule outside of the A.S.S.
In short, the dealer thinks the EPB is not appropriate to the vehicle for a significant minority of owners and is inherently weak. The were particularly unhappy that nowhere in the dealer service pack does it give guidance on when the A.S.S. should be applied and they consider the imposition of this schedule on my car to be totally disproportionate.
They have reassembled the brake with the worn parts but recommend new parts asap. They're going to supply me with the workshop notes on EPB servicing as I requested them; I, no, my bank manager would be happier doing it myself if it will need doing every 6 weeks They've waived the cost of the strip, clean and reassemble, which I'm very happy with.
I'll be drawing all of this together in a letter to LR customer care and will be sending a copy of the MD of LR for comment. I'm very pleased with what the dealer has done for me; it was apparent from the detail they went into that they have spent a huge amount of time discussing this with the technical people at Coventry.
So Westover Christchurch, apologies for the initial . You now get an official
Land Rover? You suck A.S.S. Don't Panic! Everything will be fine.... inflation is only 2.5% 3.0% 3.3% and the flying pigs are carbon neutral
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| Wed Sep 26 2007 5:35pm |
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