ruben
D3 Decade
Member Since: 26 Sep 2006
Location: ASTURIAS
Posts: 2383
 
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I totally agree with this reflection
 lost in translation!
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 17th Sep 2016 12:42 am |
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Charlie610
Member Since: 17 Sep 2014
Location: Dover
Posts: 78
  
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DG wrote: Reputations will be difficult to salvage from those people affected but ultimately there are 99% of engines not yet affected or may never be affected.
Okay so can you back that statistic up?
Considering that within the last month this fault has occurred not only to my vehicle but to that of a colleague of mine I would suggest that this issue affects more than 1% of the engines sold. If your stat was correct at 1% I would be hard pushed to find someone else who has been affected by this problem.
With regards to the negligence during the service, LR have issued SSM71816 stating that they are aware of a problem with the crank/bearings, surely they should be carrying out some sort of surveillance on these vehicles during major services like the one I've just had carried out in order to asses the bottom end and give the customer and LR a chance to repair the issue before complete failure. To me that is negligence enough.
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| 17th Sep 2016 8:45 am |
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Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20729
 
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1% of all D3/D4/RRS sold is still a pretty large number, but in the relation to the number of them sold, is a very small number
In the last 11 years, I have dealt with 5 broken cranks. That's 1 every 2 years... My D3 Build Thread
TDV8 Retrofit Build Thread
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| 17th Sep 2016 8:52 am |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
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Charlie610 wrote:DG wrote: Reputations will be difficult to salvage from those people affected but ultimately there are 99% of engines not yet affected or may never be affected.
Okay so can you back that statistic up?
As Mikey says
....but from another thread:
DG wrote:I don't have any updates to hand Lex but things will not have changed much since I wrote this in the oil casing failure thread in 2014 tbh
DG wrote:JLR engine failure rates are well within anticipated %'s ...in fact they feature in the top 10 for engine reliability according to Warranty Direct last year with a failure rate of 1 in 77 across the engine range ...and I understand that LR's own figures suggest the TDV6 fails at an average of .8% (less than 1 engine per 100 made) so there appears to be a consistency and in actual fact we shouldn't be surprised that site users engines do fail..in fact more should be failing. Incidentally these figures are twice as good as Audi \ BMW which both feature in the bottom 10.
In another thread I think I calculated that if the failure rate % were to be believed than we could anticipate around 3500 LR TDV6 engines to fail from various causes which will no doubt include the crank issue. If that is the case then the 200 in SA is a feasible number given its market share ...though I'm surprised that there are that many reported on one forum....though appreciate that this could be over years in timescale.
Difficult to relate the failure rate % to forum size in terms of numbers of registered users but as in the Oil casing thread I think we found there were 34 reports ...crank I've not counted on the site but would be surprised if it's more than 75 ..... a little bird told me that JLR recognise it's a "one per week" issue on the TDV6 and once per month on SDV6 
The overriding point is that no matter what I think or have calculated...an independent source is reporting from their own experience and that demonstrates the failure rate is within anticipated ave%.
21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 17th Sep 2016 8:54 am |
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Charlie610
Member Since: 17 Sep 2014
Location: Dover
Posts: 78
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DG, for someone who claims to be impartial you are quoting your own posts a lot and taking a stance on the side of LR.
It is still fact that this is occurring to a lot of vehicles and without warning, If LR were to make people aware and offer some form of inspection to understand whether they are likely to be affected then offer some kind of remedy it would stop people like myself and others on here ending up with a useless vehicles and huge un-payable repair bills which amount to a little less than the vehicle is worth in a road worthy state.
It is still completely immoral for LR to gain from peoples misfortune by offering a small discount on the work which will still see them profiting from their failure. That would be like a builder knocking someones wall down then offering to re-build it at a discounted rate.
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| 17th Sep 2016 9:22 am |
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Robert SausageTrousers
Member Since: 09 Aug 2015
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 466
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Not really, as there are far more anomalies that can cause issues with an engine, than there are with a wall.
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| 17th Sep 2016 9:28 am |
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Moo
D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13902
 
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Just a thought, but if a manufacturer has to honour a warranty if the work has been carried out at a non franchised dealer, as long as it is done to the same standards. How can they wriggle out of the service issue if it was done to the same standard using genuine parts? Its got to be worth a challenge. New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner 
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
Last edited by Moo on 17th Sep 2016 9:33 am. Edited 1 time in total
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| 17th Sep 2016 9:32 am |
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Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20729
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Charlie610 wrote:DG, for someone who claims to be impartial you are quoting your own posts a lot and taking a stance on the side of LR.
DG is being realistic My D3 Build Thread
TDV8 Retrofit Build Thread
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| 17th Sep 2016 9:32 am |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
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I don't claim to be anything ...I'm just telling you as I see it. I appreciate it may not be what you want to hear and I understand why you think its a travesty and it may well be a true travesty but as angry as you may rightly be I'm just trying to put things in perspective. I have been clear in saying you may still have a case against the dealer...but you have to prove it.
I'll leave you to it. Good luck 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 17th Sep 2016 9:37 am |
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challenger23
Member Since: 03 Mar 2016
Location: Essex
Posts: 56
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Exactly what do current owners do to monitor and hopefully prevent this issue occurring should we be replacing oil pumps etc when timing belts are replaced ? Or as these issues seem to be happening at random ie 21k 2015my and 110k 2010my should we just have our fingers crossed ?
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| 17th Sep 2016 12:14 pm |
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NJSS
Member Since: 06 May 2009
Location: Catherington, Hampshire.
Posts: 10492
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challenger23
I am not an expert. I have chosen to have my D3 serviced on schedule by a LR franchisee, and:-
1. Between each annual service do an oil & filter change;
2. Change the transmission, including axle, oils twice as frequently as lR suggest;
3. Did the belt service 12 months before being required & fitted a new oil pump at that time;
I am obsessive about:-
a. Not driving the car hard until the engine is warm; and
b. Allowing the turbo to spool down & cool before turning the engine off.
I may be viewed as obsessive compulsive, but I sleep well.
NJSS Am I Gammon or Woke ? - I neither know nor care.
2016 Discovery 4 Landmark
2011 Mercedes Benz SL350 (R230)
1973 MG B GT V8 - 3.9L John Eales engine, 5 speed R380 gearbox, since 1975.
1959 MGA roadster - 1.9L Peter Burgess Engine - 5 speed gearbox
Past LRs - Multiple FFRs, Discos & a Series I - some petrol, some diesel,
none Electric or H2 fuel cell - yet.
There are 10 types of people in this world: Those who understand binary, and those who don’t.
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| 17th Sep 2016 12:33 pm |
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Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20729
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IMHO, 15-16k miles between services is madness, regardless of oil technology. I service mine at 10k MAX
Points A+B are both very , very valid points and also something I am OCD about My D3 Build Thread
TDV8 Retrofit Build Thread
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| 17th Sep 2016 12:57 pm |
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challenger23
Member Since: 03 Mar 2016
Location: Essex
Posts: 56
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Cheers for the tips I have mine serviced thoroughly every 10k and use all genuine parts so I can rest easy on that one hopefully. I think you make a good point about allowing the engine to warm up and warm down as it were, luckily I've always been in a habit of doing that after using large agricultural machinery most days of the week.
I was thinking about the oil pump situation are the newer versions any better or could I be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire if my one is doing its job properly atm ?
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| 17th Sep 2016 4:39 pm |
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John C
Member Since: 28 Aug 2007
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 3292
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NJSS wrote:challenger23
I am not an expert. I have chosen to have my D3 serviced on schedule by a LR franchisee, and:-
1. Between each annual service do an oil & filter change;
2. Change the transmission, including axle, oils twice as frequently as lR suggest;
3. Did the belt service 12 months before being required & fitted a new oil pump at that time;
I am obsessive about:-
a. Not driving the car hard until the engine is warm; and
b. Allowing the turbo to spool down & cool before turning the engine off.
I may be viewed as obsessive compulsive, but I sleep well.
NJSS
Totally agree with that but, I did all that - my engine still went pop. Hoping I'm not going to be the first person to eat through two engines 2020 SDV6 D5 HSE, Carpathian Grey +
2022 Tesla Model Y LR... almost Carpathian Grey
Previously : 2005 TDV6 SE Auto, Cairns Blue (288K) - ours for 16 years
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| 17th Sep 2016 6:09 pm |
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lynalldiscovery
Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274
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I cant really see that waiting for the engine to warm up will stop it failing, turbo spool down I can understand but as most people dont just come off the motorway and park up I cant see there being an issue in most cases.
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| 17th Sep 2016 6:14 pm |
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