Let us be honest, the EU have shown the world it's real self, and goal.
Money Money Money give us the Money.
Then we may talk further.
And then who is to say we will get free trade etc.
You dont hand over all that money without knowing what the outcome could be.
We had a vote and it was to leave, maybe we should have done that on day one, that way we would not be in such a mess with remain and leave at each other causing the mess we are in now.
By not working together to leave the eu.
I often wonder if the vote had been the other way round would this type of thing be going on.
No i doubt it.
12th Oct 2017 9:05 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
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Posts: 50934
The challenge against "the enemy"
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13th Oct 2017 10:25 pm
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13899
I'm not sure why anyone should be suprised.
We are so screwed. New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
13th Oct 2017 10:35 pm
Paul J.
Member Since: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Leafy Cheshire
Posts: 7247
I wonder what the public opinion would be of how well the EU were doing in the negotiations?An ex-Disco3 / FFRR owner ......
That and the presidency is up for renewal in a couple of years so Barnier is being the tough man as he wants the top job and thinks that being hard will get him voted in. Which as its done my the MEP'sMark.
2006, D3 SE Auto - gone but not forgotten.
2014 BMW 530d M Sport Tourer.
1977 Triumph Spitfire 1500
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Disco Picture Website Here
14th Oct 2017 11:22 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
Yes ...all 27 other countries must be wrong in their stance
Well, they want our money - we leave a big hole in their finances and are trying to ensure we fill it.
I don't blame them - but it has really shown me their true colours.
Interestingly a good friend of mine was a remainder - but has changed his mind and is now for leaving - all due to the EU attitude.Mark.
2006, D3 SE Auto - gone but not forgotten.
2014 BMW 530d M Sport Tourer.
1977 Triumph Spitfire 1500
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Disco Picture Website Here
14th Oct 2017 11:55 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
They want our money that we have already committed to through a democratic process ...it's a bit like your car being in the garage ...you have told them to go ahead with works ...they have bought all the parts and started the works and then you say 'actually I don't want you to carry out the works now, oh and by the way I'm not going to pay for what I committed to or what you have already done'
I'm not saying that DG - I have no problem with paying for our legitimate commitments - but sure as hell that doesn't come to €100B or anywhere close - our net contribution (based on the figures from about 2016) is £8.6B - so the end of the current 5 year plan is something like 2020 - a year or so after we leave. So our commitment is less than £16B after we leave the EU.
With a potential reduction given we also owe part of the infrastructure.
The other "bill" might be argued to be our MEP's pension fund. Though that should be tempered with the fact that it would be frozen just like any other pension when you leave a job.Mark.
2006, D3 SE Auto - gone but not forgotten.
2014 BMW 530d M Sport Tourer.
1977 Triumph Spitfire 1500
_________________________________________________
Disco Picture Website Here
14th Oct 2017 4:43 pm
Someone-Gone
Member Since: 21 Dec 2015
Location: Gone
Posts: 5117
They might well have committed the money and it may well leave a gaping hole in EU finances, but hard luck. They have shown their arrogance and stubbornness to negotiate, wanting it all and giving nothing, so I am not going to loose any sleep over their predicament, same as I doubt they would with us.
That massive contribution and our willingness or not to pay it is also a strength. We have to utilise it to gain concessions or we are dead in the water. Once the EU has the money, they will shaft us silly unless strong safeguards are put into place.
Same with EU citizens here and Brits abroad. Unless there is unilateral agreement and a like for like policy, then unfortunately I don't see why we should allow peps to stay in this country whilst Brits could face getting kicked out.
Fair is all anyone can ask and expect and if that's not forthcoming, they can go hang.
14th Oct 2017 5:19 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
anglefire wrote:
So our commitment is less than £16B after we leave the EU.
Analysing the commitment isn't as straight forward as just equating them to what we pay in annually ...I don't think it will be E100bn ...more like E50-60bn.
I also saw a report this morning that the treasury are estimating 'hard brexit' income receipts being down £60bn annually after we are out. I hope they are wrong.
As for going badly.
If all the party's had respected the vote and stood together, united in public, instead of trying to change things, and gain a bit of political ground, etc.
Then we may all be in a better place.
After all the other 27 have behind closed doors and said nothing.
But no.
Unless we are at war this country cannot stand together to achive anything.
Now Corbyn says he voted Remain!!
Old Skinner even had a go at him, pointing out he as never once voted to support the eu.
To me they are all a bunch of spinless idiots only out to make there own agenda.
Democracy in the UK as been shafted by all the party's not just one.
Along with everyone that could not stand the outcome of the vote.
Many Remainers have said the same because they think that Democracy should be respected.
So our commitment is less than £16B after we leave the EU.
Analysing the commitment isn't as straight forward as just equating them to what we pay in annually ...I don't think it will be E100bn ...more like E50-60bn.
I also saw a report this morning that the treasury are estimating 'hard brexit' income receipts being down £60bn annually after we are out. I hope they are wrong.
There is an argument that out gross payment is really nearer €20B before our rebate and our benefits - but if we had stayed then that would have still been the case (Net contribution) so IMHO its a weak argument.
And I agree with Ray, too many politicians trying to make a name for themselves and not pulling in one direction to make Brexit work for everyone.Mark.
2006, D3 SE Auto - gone but not forgotten.
2014 BMW 530d M Sport Tourer.
1977 Triumph Spitfire 1500
_________________________________________________
Disco Picture Website Here
14th Oct 2017 7:39 pm
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13899
Sad truth is that Brexit won't work for everyone and many of those that thought it would be the panacea will be the ones to suffer most.New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
Moo you are right it won’t work for many. Like the eu doesn’t work for many either.
Truth is there is nothing that works for everyone. i do think that ultimately leaving the Eu will work for more people. But it will be a hard road.Mark.
2006, D3 SE Auto - gone but not forgotten.
2014 BMW 530d M Sport Tourer.
1977 Triumph Spitfire 1500
_________________________________________________
Disco Picture Website Here
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