Ok, we get it you don't like them, but how have they gained?
Some where in the "food chain" some one other than the consumer has gained....if you can recall the questions asked in the house probed into this. You & I will never know. But some red bracered chinless wonder will have full pockets somewhere.....some chum, some school buddy....
Why was the deal with China & France chosen above others ? indeed what others were there ? did UK companies get a look in ?
Come the revolution comrade !!'BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
22nd Jun 2017 8:34 am
highlands
Member Since: 11 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
Posts: 5095
The nuclear supply contracts are only available for licensed technologies.
In terms of deployable large-scale nuclear plants, the Chinese technology, which is mostly adaptation/advancement of licensed French and US technologies, is to my understanding more advanced than what the UK can do, given the length of time that successive governments have kicked the can down the road.
The main safety issue for Chinese plants appears to be 'civils' subcontractors that, in the UK, will be mostly if not solely UK based companies.Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
Grey 05 TDV6 HSE Auto (Gone)
54 TDV6 SE Man (killed by me )
22nd Jun 2017 8:50 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
Can't wait until the Chinese start installing lifts and escalators
22nd Jun 2017 9:01 am
highlands
Member Since: 11 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
Posts: 5095
I love the way people berate the inevitable low quality of Chinese production, all the while prodding away at their Chinese made iPhones.Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
Grey 05 TDV6 HSE Auto (Gone)
54 TDV6 SE Man (killed by me )
Agree.
I guess I qualify as one of those "people" so wiill comment.
if a phone fails - not a big deal - switch it off & back on.....or buy / get another.
In the grand scheme of things a Nuclear power plant is in a slightly different league.....don't you agree ?
I at work have the task & opportunity to buy heavy & comple plant from anywhere on the globe...part of the day job.
We've looked at the plant we use - compared technologies, looked at what's available & made a choice
It wasn't anything made in China.
But going back to the Osbourne - Dodgy Dave decision....
Who actually chose...?
A competent group of people who could examine the plant & technology? ...making the best long term decision
or something else entirely ?
The process & decision were hidden from view
Plus we are encouraged to buy UK made to keep jobs etc etc
Why is it OK for the (supposed) "top bananas" of the day to do something entirely different ?
It was commented on & severely criticised at the time.BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
22nd Jun 2017 11:14 am
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13906
I work in Medical Devices and we use Chinese companies because they have the skills, knowledge and quality that we can't fine elsewhere, despite our best efforts. We are constantly let down by UK suppliers on time lines and quality when we need parts and prototypes made. China isn't perfect but they get it done at the right quality. They also aren't always the cheapest.
Its a shame that the UK, once the bastion of engineering excellence, is no longer able to do so many things it once lead the world in.
Oh, as an aside, it looks like HS2 and the West coast line are also heading to the Chinese. New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
22nd Jun 2017 1:57 pm
Erea
Member Since: 19 Mar 2012
Location: Munster
Posts: 1509
To lighten the topic was the Queen giving a nod to Europe with her choice of hat during the Queen's speech? Donald Tusk was also wearing the same.
22nd Jun 2017 3:15 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
highlands wrote:
I love the way people berate the inevitable low quality of Chinese production, all the while prodding away at their Chinese made iPhones.
Never had one personally ...and all the evidence of those I know with them suggests that they have a worse quality reputation than escalators and lifts .....horrid little things
22nd Jun 2017 3:16 pm
highlands
Member Since: 11 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
Posts: 5095
The consequences of a mobile phone failure are generally low.
A modern smartphone is a massively complicated bit of kit and yet China is not just an adequate place to manufacture them...quite possibly the very best manufactured phones do come from China.
China is ready to compete globally in certain markets.
It is certainly there with mobile phones.
It is certainly there with solar panels.
You can get some of the best panels from China, and probably some of the worst.
You can tell a good one because entities like Munich Re will insure pension companies and the like for the generating potential of the panel over a 20 year period if the panel model is included on their lists, and plenty of Chinese panels are.
In addition to the technology being licensed for use, there is a great deal of oversight in construction and operation, which will be within our control.
If I thought Chinese nuclear plants would have commonality with, say, Chinese motorcycle engines, I'd certainly be very worried about construction of nuclear plants over here...but I don't.Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
Grey 05 TDV6 HSE Auto (Gone)
54 TDV6 SE Man (killed by me )
22nd Jun 2017 3:42 pm
astonbuilder
Member Since: 29 Sep 2006
Location: MIDLANDS
Posts: 8052
Worked in China for two years (2009/10) running manufacturing facility for security trucks (they made the 'box' on the back and shipped it to UK to fit to chassis cab to ensure our 'ethically aware' customer base could say they bought 'British made' and not Chinese from company that also made "execution vans" and armoured trucks sold to the highest payer (I kid you not ).
The quality was appalling, the people they employed could not follow the most basic of instructions. This is because labour is so cheap and they employed the lowest level they could find. It would be like JLR taking rejected McD employees and just telling them 'go build a car' (no jokes necessary here..... ).
After a week I gave feedback and came in the next day and the whole production workforce had been sacked and replaced with more 'disposable' employees (they earned on average about £900/year and lived in the factory but they had 'fantastic' jobs, highly sought after as it came with healthcare). If we had power-cuts (often) they were taken 'off the clock' and not paid. They had a couple of days a month off but lived so far away they couldn't go home. H&S didn't exist; metal was cut by standing on it in flip-flops and disc-cutting it, the spray booth was a ship container with a house fan at far end and the sprayer took lungfuls of air, ran in and sprayed as much as he could before coming out and repeating.
The Chinese 'boxes' were shipped to UK, stripped, rebuilt and assembled to the chassis cabs. Even this labour and logistics intensive process cut at least 30% off cost of a UK made vehicle in totality. As an interim recognition of poor quality I actually stopped them fully assembling the box so it saved on UK stripping it down; a sort of CKD operation in reverse
After a year things improved but it was only by making sure we had time to train the operators without them being sacked on a daily basis but we never got any trained to be quality inspectors; they just seemed to want to cut-corners, it was nuts, they'd argue that 'crap was quicker' basically.
However in that period saw fledgling car companies emerge with some decent products that would challenge any euro-budget brand if safety aspects and integral quality was sorted/in-place and on electronics they were just running ahead at 100mph.
Went to a security camera show that HUGE halls full of optical quality lensed cameras that were rip-off copies of the very best quality the western world offered but were perfect and cost fractions of the west costs.
I instigated going round the universities ahead of graduation to try and get first pick of graduates, not what was left. The best graduates would cost way less than UK graduates (I think we were paying HUGE wages of about £8k or so) and they would work like robots. Trying to get this sanctioned by the owner took about six months and he moaned constantly as his view was three graduates on £3k was better than one on £8-9k - it wasn't........
I said then "they'll take over the world" and still think I won't be far off. Their ability to throw labour at it is immense and, it took a while, but they grasped that western leadership to 'train' them helped accelerate their abilities until they could do it themselves and they were still way cheaper than the western competition.
It is scary what they have achieved and what more they can do to continue growth......
OK
I may not be an expert on this (there may be someone on here who will comment)
lets compare to a coal fired power station:
Water Tube boiler/s - coal fired (the coal is pulverised & sprayed in)...critical piece of kit, it use the fact that a massive surface are in the water tubes provides a heat exchange with a relatively small amount of water
Superheater. which may be part of the actual boiler or a separate unit - this adds heat to the steam thats all ready been generated - this makes what ever it feeds more efficient in thermal terms.
Steam Turbine. takes the superheated seem & converts this into rotational power.
Alternator: hard coupled to the steam turbine...this produces the electrical energy
Condenser: works under a partial vacuum & draws the steam fed through the steam turbine (more efficient) converts this back to water...the water is re-used
Boiler "feed water" is very pure - virtually a chemical that has special chemicals aded to prevent wetted areas producing "scale"
Cooling Tower - the water that cools the condenser is fed to the cooling tower/s - to reject heat to atmosphere...this is waste heat.
There may "reheat boilers that take the steam & simply reheat this to use the energy as opposed to using a condenser (more efficient - thermally)
A power station its a piece of very large plant that when up to speed, running, on line isn't stopped.
It takes literally days to get running (the plant has to be "warmed through")....this is very similar to a ship that has steam turbine propulsion.
A Nuclear power station has a nuclear Reactor replacing the coal fired boiler. it takes the heat generated (by water, hot air of thermal transfer fluid) to a set of complex heat exchangers that take heat from the reactor & generates steam, superheating this also
The very critical piece of plant is the actual nuclear reactor & everything that goes with it.
Its in a containment that prevents radiation or anything radioactive from "escaping" differing technologies use water cooling or gas. This is the heart of the plant that is made of exotic metals, very special manufacturing techniques, control systems that have all sorts of back up systems & has to be controlled very carefully.
Otherwise you get a Chernobyl.
noting....you dont get second chances with Nuclear Reactors.
The UK has a long & prestigious record & industry that makes water tube boilers, steam turbines,all the ancillary equipment but fundamentally nuclear reactors.
I have to question whether the Chinese makers have the technologies, expertise, track record & innovative engineering at a nuclear industry level that actually compares to the UK ?
As an ex-marine engineer I broadly understand the technologies involved, the size, importance & critical nature of the plant, many marine engineers who take shore side jobs take up positions in power generation plants
So to be fair comparisons with mobile phones just dont count.
Medical Equipment is an entirely different industry that I haven't a clue about how these compare country to country isn't a known to me. But accept that Chinese equipment is good
Comparing with say heavy plant like a power station (as crudely written above), nuclear power stations is the only fair & proper one.
Some countries (the USA, France & the UK) innovate, design, manufacture, actually use themselves & importantly export nuclear power plants.
I just wonder what China as a whole or specifically the maker/s of the actual nuclear plant (we are supposed to be getting) compare ?
I also question who made the final decision ?BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
22nd Jun 2017 8:19 pm
Riccardo
Member Since: 20 Feb 2010
Location: Porto (was Kent)
Posts: 4123
Good finally we start to talk about real proposals and it seems a good start
Quote:
About three million EU citizens living in the UK would be allowed to stay after Brexit, Theresa May has proposed.
A new "UK settled status" would grant EU migrants who had lived in the UK for five years rights to stay and access health, education and other benefits.
Proposals were unveiled at a Brussels summit but are dependent on EU states guaranteeing Britons the same rights.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel called the plan a "good start", but Labour said it was "too little, too late".
Many EU citizens in the UK, and Britons living abroad, are worried about their status once Brexit happens. The UK's exit deadline is 30 March 2019.
Addressing other EU leaders at her first summit since the general election, the prime minister said she did not want anyone to have to leave or families to split up.
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
23rd Jun 2017 7:19 am
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
Hinkley Point ...DUP ....the Tories will pay any amount just to maintain power
23rd Jun 2017 8:14 am
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13906
New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
) 
...and all the evidence of those I know with them suggests that they have a worse quality reputation than escalators and lifts .....horrid little things 
).
Sherlock:
