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one law for one ,one law for another
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gje
 


Member Since: 09 Mar 2014
Location: world
Posts: 488

Wales 

Quote:
got out with two bags went into the shop came back out with two full bags put them into the van , reached into a bag took something out proceeds to eat it turns off blues and then drives off


... ok maybe he took advantage of a lull in shift to get something .... or as I said earlier he had been tasked to go collect stuff for a victim or maybe to stock up the custody centre meal locker ( for detainees you know, who have to have a meal offered) as a supplier didnt deliver...
there are so many variables here without really knowing yet peeps seemingly want the bloke hounded out of the job on a breach of law or discipline!
  
Post #18235767th Jun 2017 8:09 am
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geoffsnook
 


Member Since: 13 Jun 2014
Location: south wales
Posts: 3169

Wales 

If he was tasked to get food for a prisoner or anyone else then surely he should not have parked where he was and put on his blue lights. If he was allowed to go and get supplies then he was freed from duties, so he should have parked as a normal driver and not put his blue light on as he must have know he was doing something not quire right as he put on his blue light's Exclamation
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Post #18235827th Jun 2017 8:25 am
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Lost for Words
 


Member Since: 03 Sep 2013
Location: Warminster, Wiltshire
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RRSTDV8 wrote:
Lost for Words wrote:

It's an argument for recognising the difference between law and statute/legislation. The key being that the law, is not what is made up by politicians or bureaucrats, nor judges, but the reasonable expectations of the populus at large - as such it is about real needs and relevance rather than made up rules. The legislation, on the other hand, is just the legislature's interpretation of what is already the law of the land. If there is the general agreement and expectation that a certain bending of the rules is acceptable and not posing any issue, then that is in fact the law, and what is written on the vellum is not. Thumbs Up

Pish. Try that line when in the dock and see where it gets you. "I've asked loads of people I know and they all think I didn't do anything wrong so you can't touch me, Your Honour".

The law is what is written in legislation along with the judgements handed down by the higher courts in interpreting that legislation. This combination of legislation and interpretation/ precedent is the law. What the general public thinks doesn't matter. If there is sufficient public noise then politicians may well change the legislation, as is their way, but until that happens the law is as it is currently written and interpreted.


No, the law, comes up from the people as a function of society, not legislators. It's not about taking a poll, about public opinion, but about society's needs and expectations. The legislature may attempt to codify it and it is "found" by judges looking at precedent, but the actual law is a real thing that does not change according to the whim of any person. It manifests itself most clearly when judges find themselves without precedent and therefore make judgement based on what the actions of hypothetical people (e.g. the man on the Clapham omnibus) could reasonably be expected to do and think. This is the historical principle of law, the Common law, that we have held in this country for hundreds of years, deriving influence from Roman law.

Take, for example, murder. Suppose today there is no legislation prohibiting murder, and tomorrow it is introduced. Today murder will be legal; tomorrow it won't be. Is it lawful today or tomorrow though? No. The law doesn't just change, because the law is about how people expect to live, rules that need to be followed to get by, that everybody is, and can be, expected to know. Murder is no more lawful without legislation than with because the law exists of its own accord; it is a function of society, not the legislature.

Such a basis is an important principle within the concept of Rule of Law (a commonly misunderstood phrase, which upon missing this point, many wrongly assume to mean obedience to authority).

Quote:
"[The public] are slaves to the law in order that [they] may be free" to freely quote Cicero.


Substituting with "The public" changes the significance of this. It is not only the public that are slaves to the law, but all people, as befits the Rule of Law. Note that it is slaves to the law, not slaves to law-makers, as would be the case if the law were made by a legislature, and it refers to we, because even those legislators are not just subject to it, but also slaves to it - not able to change or determine it. Cicero was touching on the very point I make above about the law arising from society's needs and expectations.

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Post #18235867th Jun 2017 8:36 am
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gje
 


Member Since: 09 Mar 2014
Location: world
Posts: 488

Wales 

Quote:
he was freed from duties, so he should have parked as a normal driver

... still 'on duty' and the use/parking was for 'a policing purpose' = exemption in law.
  
Post #18236047th Jun 2017 9:27 am
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Someone-Gone
 


Member Since: 21 Dec 2015
Location: Gone
Posts: 5117

United Kingdom 

Err, no, there no blanket exemption for the Police just because your on duty.

It all depends on the circumstances. For instance, breaking road traffic laws like speeding maybe okay if going to an emergency or for training purposes, but that's about it.
  
Post #18236227th Jun 2017 10:08 am
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gje
 


Member Since: 09 Mar 2014
Location: world
Posts: 488

Wales 

Quote:
Err, no, there no blanket exemption for the Police just because your on duty

...er yes there is... its called a 'police purpose' in law and has to be justified.
It (mainly) applies to:
1.speed limits
2. red traffic signals
3. motorway regulations relating to use of the hardshoulder
4. certain parking offences ( which are now civil law anyway)
... an of course there is no 'legal' definaition of a 'police purpose' in legislation.
  
Post #18236757th Jun 2017 12:37 pm
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Mogwyth
 


Member Since: 03 Oct 2014
Location: Pwllheli
Posts: 3976

Wales 2005 Discovery 3 4.4 V8 HSE Auto Zambezi SilverDiscovery 3

If it has to be justified then as Dundonian says there is no blanket exemption. A blanket exemption would allow the police to disregard the law whenever they are on duty rather than when justified.
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Post #18236797th Jun 2017 12:45 pm
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maxbasscat
 


Member Since: 03 Jan 2016
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 1263

Ukraine 2005 LR3 4.4 V8 SE Auto Tonga GreenLR3

Some of the stuff on here, in my view questionable judgments? The chap clearly broke the law of the land. Where have all the liberals gone?

I personally would not want to see anyone lose their job just because of a forum thread.
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Post #18236857th Jun 2017 12:58 pm
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mcsimmo
 


Member Since: 08 Aug 2011
Location: North of the south
Posts: 1795

Scotland 

Here is an old post of mine about Police parking. Some interesting comments.

http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic114298.html
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Post #18240058th Jun 2017 7:23 am
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DG
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Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50930

Wales 

Waylander11 wrote:
park in a no parking area


For all of the comment here we don't actually know whether any law was broken because, despite asking for clarification, we know nothing of the location, the restrictions in place, whether it was on the highway or private land. Confused
  
Post #18240088th Jun 2017 7:34 am
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