Forget LEDs - they will all spread the light, reducing the intensity and shifting the balance of light nearer to the car because none of them can match the geometry of a halogen filament - as you have found.
Even the brightest, finest and smallest of LEDs will be mounted on a plate that's probably at least twice as thick as a filament already, and that's enough to shift it right off the focal point even before other geometry is considered. The problem is all the more severe with long range driving and spot lamps that are designed to put out a narrow, tightly controlled beam.
If you want to increase the intensity you will need high wattage bulbs (and appropriate wiring). You can go up to 130W in H1 - which is good for 3250lm, maybe more. That's in line with 35W HID and you will preserve the beam pattern, meaning a level of intensity and field of vision better than any LED retrofit (and better quality light too).
If you don't want to worry about wiring etc., you can get high-output ones from the likes of PIAA which are not E-marked (don't bother with any bulbs that are) so they can genuinely deliver a higher output.
All for off-road use of course. Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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6th Oct 2017 9:44 am
MikeAtt
Member Since: 28 Sep 2015
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 54
Thanks for the great reply, very informative
Sorry I don't know who you mean nun PIAA, do you have a link as that sounds they way to go?
Thanks
Mike
6th Oct 2017 10:00 am
OJ
Member Since: 01 Oct 2017
Location: Loch Leven
Posts: 725
Don’t be surprised at the price, I fitted a set of HE307 to my Defender when I had it and the difference they make is quite remarkable, the original LR ones were like candles in comparison, hope you get on ok, cheers OJ
Last edited by OJ on 6th Oct 2017 10:35 am. Edited 1 time in total
This is the Competition (non-E-marked) range that PIAA do: http://www.piaa.co.uk/bulbs/bulbshow.asp?ID=platcomp On road legal bulbs, you should always take claims such as "55W=100W" etc. with a pinch of salt, but these ones don't have that constraint - hence I'm pointing you to the Competition range rather than to the Night-Tech/Xtreme White bulbs despite the lower claimed output.
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6th Oct 2017 10:34 am
MikeAtt
Member Since: 28 Sep 2015
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 54
Thanks for the info guys
So keeping the standard wiring and wanting a bulb that will be a similar colour to my 6000k High beam LED's do you think either of these would work?
OK, well, the first thing I have to recommend is A) not using LEDs for any headlight retrofit (for the aforementioned reasons) and B) not aiming for high colour temperatue light.
If you're interested, I can go into more detail, but basically, higher colour temperature causes more glare, encourages our eyes towards Scotopic vision (night vision with less colour), and increases fatigue. It looks brighter to people which is why they like it, and manufacturers like to make claims about being closer to daylight (these are meaningless), but in reality, it only looks brighter because of the way our eyes work. Because it is set up to adapt to light levels - not for consistent measurement - the human eye simply cannot accurately measure brightness.
I would encourage you to use the most functional bulbs and not worry about matching the colour when it comes to main beams.
Quote:
My only concern of the PIAA bulbs I've listed is that they are 4000k so might be very blue, ideally I would like to find a 6000k 100w bulb
2500K is Selective Yellow. 2700K is an incandescent light bulb. Typical halogen is 3000-3200K. 4000K is warm white in the day and slightly warm white at night. 4300K is native/OE HID - a fairly pure white in the dark and the most efficacious for HID bulbs. 5000K is a warm white in the day but a cool white in the dark. 6000K is white in the day, but goes a bit blue in the dark, and is the most efficacious level for LEDs. Above that and you're into the realm of styling lights. Note that these colour temperatures look warmer in the day than at night - that's because our eyes become more receptive to green-blue light in the dark.
The best "white" looking halogen bulbs are the PIAA Xtreme White Plus range. You can achieve a higher colour temperature better with a higher-efficacy filament and the quality necessary to make it reliable - hence the Xtreme White bulbs have a lighter filter than cheaper bulbs. Any halogen bulb bluer than that will be losing a serious amount of light in a strong blue filter. Since halogen bulbs output more light towards the red end of the specrum, a blue filter takes out a large amount of light (in a way that a yellow one doesn't). As well as the loss of light, the filtered light ends up retained as heat, putting more strain on the filament and reducing bulb life.
For 100W bulbs, I couldn't say what to go for. The higher the wattage however, the higher the native colour temperature.
On the whole though, I always recommend the following:
- Stick to standard bulbs for performance, lifetime and value for money in road-legal, standard wattage applications.
- Buy high-efficacy/high colour temperature E-marked bulbs for looks, rather than performance or value for money.
- PIAA Competition bulbs for non-road-legal applications but where wiring and/or lamp construction is a constraint.
- Standard high wattage bulbs where there are no constraints - wiring, reflectors and lenses are up to the task.
- Selective Yellow for fogs, poor weather, or if you want something different and kind on the eyes.
Hope this helps. Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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You chaps seem to know your stuff on bulbs so can I widen the discussion slightly to include the lamps.
My D4 is fitted with the LR wiring for spot lights and I assumed that the dealer had also fitted LR lamps. As the reflectors were showing rust at the bottom I looked more closely and they are in fact marked Ring. They have performed well, and as per the discussion already, the yellow colour compared to the other lights was not noticable as I have them set high to look out for tree branches.
So what would you recomend for the replacements on the basis that there isn't actually any budget for this?A vaccine does not stop you catching a virus, or passing it on, or getting ill from it, really ill. It does reduce the likelyhood of you dying when really, really ill. Stay Alive - KEEP AWAY FROM PEOPLE.
7th Oct 2017 10:39 am
OJ
Member Since: 01 Oct 2017
Location: Loch Leven
Posts: 725
Hi Navigator
If the Ring lamps have been ok in the past I would consider replacing them like for like when your budget allows, when it comes to the lighting output it depends on what your application is, are you off roading or normal road use? LFW post is very informative and gives the option of a range of bulbs to use.
I’ve used the LED lamps from here which are great for off road, the 7” are a good budget lamp
https://www.luxlightingsolutions.co.uk/col...ork-light.
In my own experience LED lamps are pretty good and a lot kinder to the wiring and battery but it’s down to your own personal preference
Hard to say really - you get what you pay for - but Ring lamps won't set the bar high and if they're getting a bit tired then the only way is up.
The genuine LR D4 lamps are in fact PIAA 80XTs which make for good solid, moderately sized and low profile lamps - and they keep that OE look. Look to be some going for £90 each on Ebay at the moment. Take H3 bulbs, so you can go up to 130W.
I run 4 of the 80 Series which are powerful 8" H4 lamps and have just had a pair of the 520 Ion Yellow lamps (seriously snazzy - it's such a shame they aren't available over here) sent over from the US for the new Freelander. Reputable brands like Lightforce, Hella and KC all do good lamps too, but I don't particularly recommend auxilliary lights on a budget. Ring and Wipac etc. are all very well, but they don't have the robustness or refinement of better lamps.
What's your intended use for them? Is road legality important? What's the score with the wiring and mounting? I'm not sure what the capability of the OE wiring is re high wattage bulbs.
- Beam is very important. Once you have a good amount of light, the balance of light between near and far is the most important factor in how far you see - adding more light all over will not let you see any further at all because your pupils will just adjust (offering only a marginally increased depth of field). You need to add more light in the distance without spreading it around you.
- There are different pros and cons to halogen, HID and LEDs - neither is perfect for everything.
- On a budget, stick with halogen for any kind of throw.
- LEDs must be of the reflector facing variety to get a good beam.
- Bigger is better when it comes to beam because the filament is further from the reflector (works like focal length on a camera).
- Deeper lamps make use of more of the light from the bulb leaving less spill also.
- Bulbs with longitudinal filaments (H1, H4 etc.) can produce the narrowest spot beams, in a round shape - transverse filaments (i.e. H3) produce a more oval beam, tending to be wider and shorter in height.
- A beam of about 20 degrees is a good balance to extend the field of vision.
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7th Oct 2017 12:40 pm
OJ
Member Since: 01 Oct 2017
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