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Dan_NL
Member Since: 19 Sep 2010
Location: world
Posts: 1213
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| Retrofit a DPF and NOx reducing system |
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Last edited by Dan_NL on 21st Apr 2019 12:32 am. Edited 1 time in total
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 27th Jan 2018 1:33 am |
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lynalldiscovery
Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274
  
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Many trucks/firms have tried the cng/lpg route all that I know of gave up, reliability issues and refuelling points.
Ive seen ones with the gearbox replaced by a generator charging capacitors which drove a motor which drove the rear axle, it used more fuel than the std diesel truck.
Many years ago Safeway ran a fleet of gas scanias, there were always loads parked against the fence, reliability was a serious issue, mainly I think due to it being a retrofit.
I have spoken to some of the old fitters and they reckoned they were a nightmare.
Cars are always behind trucks with emissions, but the gap closed as Euro6 came along and that to me is the only way to get a clean diesel is go with a Euro6 model.
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| 27th Jan 2018 3:14 am |
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Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7438
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Interesting stuff! 
I wasn’t too bothered about the VW thing to start with, but now I am. VW (and now those individuals and companies that cheat by removing emission control systems) have caused some serious consequences for all of us that have really tried to do the right thing.
Whether it be the consequences for the air that we breath, the much more difficult diesel MoT test that’s just around the corner, the knee jerk adoption of even stricter than Euro 6 tests (for additional tax raising purposes), the increased tax grab on diesel company cars or, ultimately, the banning of all ICE vehicles in the not too distant future.
I don’t know how the VW Group managed to get away with this, with barely any ill affect on their sales figures at all; they sell just as many VW Golf hatches, saloons and estates, under all 4 brands, as they ever did! 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: FL2 as a second car
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
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| 27th Jan 2018 6:50 am |
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Dan_NL
Member Since: 19 Sep 2010
Location: world
Posts: 1213
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Last edited by Dan_NL on 21st Apr 2019 12:32 am. Edited 1 time in total
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| 27th Jan 2018 10:22 am |
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Dan_NL
Member Since: 19 Sep 2010
Location: world
Posts: 1213
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@lynalldiscovery. So as I understand you correctly, you suggest the only way to make older D's cleaner is to convert
the whole powertrain to a EURO-6 motor and ancillaries ? 
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| 27th Jan 2018 10:39 am |
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Hardware
Member Since: 28 Jun 2016
Location: Hiding under the M60
Posts: 12722
 
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it's not just VW that played with the rules.
there were loads of Jap cars that had variable valve timing with the aim of producing minimum nasties in the exhaust fumes when the engine was sat idling (which is how MoT used to test petrol engines ) but when you drove enthusiastically (or even at all with some of them) the engine started behaving more "old school" i.e. turn as much petrol into oomph as it possibly could.
it always irked me that the MoT test for diesels involved revving the nuts off an unloaded engine when that is not how they are driven.
as for dual-fuelling Discos ... IIRC there was someone rallying a D1 who upped the power by running diesel/LPG mix.
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| 27th Jan 2018 10:50 am |
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L319
Member Since: 14 Dec 2013
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 2080
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It also irked the engineers at Land Rover when that test came in, for the opposite reason. . For the MoT, the engine revving cycle is repeated up to a maximum of a 6 times I believe , but for type approval the number of times continues until the readings stabilise which might take 20 or so.
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| 27th Jan 2018 11:44 am |
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Dan_NL
Member Since: 19 Sep 2010
Location: world
Posts: 1213
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Last edited by Dan_NL on 21st Apr 2019 12:33 am. Edited 1 time in total
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| 27th Jan 2018 1:10 pm |
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Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7438
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Dan_NL wrote:Look at the series "dirty money" from netflix.
Thanks, I will 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: FL2 as a second car
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
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| 27th Jan 2018 1:43 pm |
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Dan_NL
Member Since: 19 Sep 2010
Location: world
Posts: 1213
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Last edited by Dan_NL on 21st Apr 2019 12:33 am. Edited 1 time in total
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| 27th Jan 2018 2:23 pm |
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Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7438
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Red Merle wrote:Dan_NL wrote:Look at the series "dirty money" from netflix.
Thanks, I will
Watched and very interesting it was too. It's interesting that VW still managed to become the world's largest car manufacturer, despite the cheating and lying. Buyers seem to have very short memories.
PS: Warning for those without a strong stomach, there's a surprise couple of minutes of Donald Trump at the very end. 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: FL2 as a second car
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
Last edited by Red Merle on 28th Jan 2018 10:51 am. Edited 1 time in total
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| 28th Jan 2018 9:58 am |
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Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10376
 
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I'm surprised.
Diesel car sales are down.
Partly because of this, and partly because it was announced they will no longer be able to make them in 2030?
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| 28th Jan 2018 10:46 am |
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Dan_NL
Member Since: 19 Sep 2010
Location: world
Posts: 1213
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Mostly because major cities in Europe wil ban diesels soon...
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| 28th Jan 2018 12:46 pm |
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df_tom
Member Since: 10 Mar 2017
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 127
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Quote:A friend informed of the existence of a ready kit for private cars. ITs awaiting approval from the EU.
Made in Germany and will cost around € 2000,- fitted;
Euro5 can be done for Toyota already.
http://toms-fahrzeugtechnik.de/produkte/fahrzeug/euro-5.html
Euro 6: technically, it's no problem. Has been done for excavators, loaders, tractors and such already.
http://solutions.baumot.de/en/products/bnox-scr-system/
Space to fit things is plenty in the D3.
The big elephant in the room is homologation. And the lobbywork going on in making this a reality is pretty bad for car buyers and the environment alike.
You could count me in as soon as we could see the legality of a conversion guaranteed. Not happening at the moment, i'm afraid.
See, if they do it like thy did with Euro4, (only short time ago! Remember, they brought Euro4 and said you get the green sticker for all Germany! All Hail Euro4, it will save the planet!), they needed to register and do type approval for the conversion kits on every single combination of engine and vehicle. Costs for this got very prohibitive, when you owned a rare vehicle. Like my then owned Citroen XM break 2.1 TD, only ~5000 registered in Germany. Still running at the time: maybe 500? Interested in conversion: maybe 50? 25.000 EUR testing / 25 buyers: just 1000EUR of cost only for the paperwork, no development, nothing built, just the cost for keeping gov't happy.
If the government would care for the environment and people's health, they'd do something like this: Take the car with the worst emissions for the TDV6 Lion Engine. Have this tested. If we can get this to E6d levels, we can get the other ones as well. Increase the sales base (fords, PSa vehicles, LR), lower the unit cost for the paperwork.
Alternatively: refrain from having to do type approval for those kits, let owners convert cars and accept if the single car gets through regular emission tests. Vendor guaranttes this will be achievable in sales contract. Everybody happy.
Likelihood for this to happen: 0.0000. Reason: just ask who thinks they benefit from scrapping cars and covering the demand for mobility...
Right now, as it stands, we could do it, but as there is no functional government in KrautKantry at the moment, you run the risk of investing 2000 Euro and then getting royally scr***d when they - surprise-surprise- reject the legality of such devices later on, when Mutti's boys get lobbied into the next step auto sales boost scheme.
Mind you, Petrol Engines are already on the same path. Nowadays, they operate at similar levels of compression and direct injection, and there are already engines out there that switch off the sparkplug. Effectively, to me, it's "switching to diesel mode". Who would have expected that these engines do come with particulate filter....
And: don't be put off. TDV6 and SDV can be done with DPF plus SCR. LR and the others sold them that way. They will be able to sell E6. Now, how much are they willing to work together with the mfg. of conversion kits? Like, handing out interface descriptions, etc? ---> Cui bono?
It's not the engineering that lacks. And it's neither lobbyists nor carmakers who suffer.
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| 28th Jan 2018 1:13 pm |
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Dan_NL
Member Since: 19 Sep 2010
Location: world
Posts: 1213
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I think I'll aim for electric conversion directly...
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| 28th Jan 2018 1:30 pm |
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