Announcement: Please provide feedback on electronic park brake faults. Click here for more info.
|
egr and butterfly valve pics
|
|
|
|
studiscoS
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 13
 
|
Jim
Thanks for pics and details. My warrantee has expired and one or both EGRs have gone so I will be doing the mod this weekend. 
Thanks again. 
|
 Thu Mar 20 2008 12:52am |
|
|
simonsi
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Location: Leicester
Posts: 669
|
pbhawkin wrote:Quote:as j moore states the butterfly is there to create vacuum where none would normally exist in order for the EGR system to work
I guess the Venturi effect that occurs with fast moving air past an opening would not be enough to create sufficient vacuum to make the EGR efficient and that the Butterfly valve creates a greater vacuum?
Yes, obviously as 10forC states its not simply open or shut but the purpose of the butterfly valve is to create vacuum at the EGR ports to draw in exhaust gases through those ports and while it is doing that it is, by definition, starving the fresh air input to the engine. As a diesel is throttled by fuel input not air input as with a petrol, there is no other way to create any appreciable vacuum in the inlet side.
Quote:HAS anyone asked their friendly LR mechanic what the implications are if this was done on a car that was IN warrenty?
The warranty terms are quite clear, its modified so any consequent or possibly related failures or possibly the entire warranty would be invalid depending on the local laws and LR attitude.
However first they have to spot the blanking plates and removed butterfly valve...assuming you haven't had the opportunity to restore it to normal....  Cheers
Simon
TDV6 S Auto - Zambezi Silver - JE Tune - RRS 19" - Sidesteps - Roof Rails
Body Side Strips - Xenons - Bright Pack - Cold Pack - Premium Stereo
Alpine Roof - Towpack - Alpine Touchscreen Satnav - Veba Rear DVD changer
Alpine Roof Monitor - Webasto FBH Timer - Awesome Brembo Frt & S/C Rr Brakes
|
| Thu Mar 20 2008 7:55am |
|
|
ianv
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Location: Murrumbateman
Posts: 259
 
|
Great Pics, Great Mode, no issue for me. I'll just keep an eye on it for the 10 months of warranty left and then
OUT they come 
Note that in days gone by EGR and vacuum valves were cleaned in solvent at each service. Seems like a forgotten habit. Maybe they OHS police have scared everyone off solvents of various carcinogenic kinds.
Thanks AJ TDV6 S. Air Susp, locking Diff, Warn Winch, ARB bar, IPF lights, dual bats, G4 ladder, Frontrunner roofrack, rear wheel carrier, long range tank, Hannibal awning, 240V inverter, Cooper ST's, UHF, HF-VKS737 N3559
|
| Thu Mar 20 2008 9:26am |
|
|
SPOTTER
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Location: Adrift........
Posts: 2097
|
On my late Tdi Deffender, the LR dealer disconnected the EGR system when the vehicle was a few monhs old. It was standard practice as soon as it malfunctioned
Never had any issues with emissions.
Faulty EGR valve cost '00's on my wifes last car to get everything decoked.......just outside warranty of course!!!
Clean air and clean fuel into the engine can only be good really ought to change this.........
|
| Thu Mar 20 2008 10:56am |
|
|
al cope
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Oldbury, WM
Posts: 1596
 
|
you might like this comment, made about a test drive by Autocar in an RRS TDV8:
"Our only grumble, highlighted on tight, twisty roads, is the engine’s sluggishness to pull out of low-speed corners. Chief engine engineer Grant Horne puts it down to the EGR – the exhaust gas recirculation system for scrubbing pollutants out of the tailpipe – which fills the intake with smoky air that has to be purged before more fuel can be pumped in. Until that happens, the engine just doesn’t pull."
sound like good justification for blanking off the EGR to me.
Al TDV6 S - Tonga with Ebony
(and 19" RRS alloys, satnav & DVD)
Remember - You can only walk so far into the wilderness before you are walking out again
|
| Thu Mar 20 2008 3:45pm |
|
|
DG
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff !
Posts: 13693
|
Not being very technical ...will the engine smoke much more under acceleration with the modification?? Powered by............................
.
I've been accused of vulgarity. I say that's bullshit 
|
| Thu Mar 20 2008 3:48pm |
|
|
al cope
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Oldbury, WM
Posts: 1596
|
why should it. on full accelleration, the EGR's should be closed anyway, so no difference as far as I can see.
Al
PS, if you buy a couple of EGR gaskets, you can use these as templates to make the blanking plates prior to doing the work. Should make it much quicker to do. TDV6 S - Tonga with Ebony
(and 19" RRS alloys, satnav & DVD)
Remember - You can only walk so far into the wilderness before you are walking out again
|
| Thu Mar 20 2008 3:58pm |
|
|
Gareth
Site Moderator
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bob the Builders 'ere
Posts: 9618
|
If the reason for the sluggish take up is the injection system waiting for the dirty air to be cleared, then removing the bits and blanking will not change this. The ECU will still think the EGR's are there and doing their job, and will still delay the fuelling.
I reckon it would need a remap that takes the egr removal into account, to fully exploit the benefits. Silver TDV6 HSE
Pepper White Cooper S Convertible
Old English White MGB GT
Ex Military 109 Series 2a Soft Top
|
| Thu Mar 20 2008 4:21pm |
|
|
al cope
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Oldbury, WM
Posts: 1596
|
Gareth - whilst I agree in principal, I dont think its that. It just the straight physics of the cylinders and inlet tract being filled with crap (exhaust gas), which needs to clear before you get a clean burn. I dont think the ECU monitors the exhaust gas to see how clean it is before deciding to squirt fuel (unless TFC tell me otherwise, and I'll bow to his large brain)
Al TDV6 S - Tonga with Ebony
(and 19" RRS alloys, satnav & DVD)
Remember - You can only walk so far into the wilderness before you are walking out again
Last edited by al cope on Thu Mar 20 2008 4:46pm; edited 1 time in total
|
| Thu Mar 20 2008 4:32pm |
|
|
AndrewW
Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Location: Saddleworth
Posts: 1205
|
Gareth wrote:If the reason for the sluggish take up is the injection system waiting for the dirty air to be cleared, then removing the bits and blanking will not change this. The ECU will still think the EGR's are there and doing their job, and will still delay the fuelling.
I reckon it would need a remap that takes the egr removal into account, to fully exploit the benefits.
I'm on shaky ground here - does the injection system "wait" a set length of (remappable) time or does (yet) a (nother) sensor detect clean air and "permit" increased injector flow? It would be if the latter.
Where's 10 when you want him?
Edit  al types quicker... 06 TDV6 SE Tonga Green
Mantec Plate (with three "dings"), BCB rope, Hidden winch (hidden in garage...), Webasto timer (in box), TorqTuned ((tee hee)˛), Origin b2 (in case), Traffic master jam warner (in expectation), FT8800, Motorola GM360, INTEK H-520+ (in a tangle)
|
| Thu Mar 20 2008 4:33pm |
|
|
AndrewW
Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Location: Saddleworth
Posts: 1205
|
How about you replace the EGR system with a line from an LPG bottle?
06 TDV6 SE Tonga Green
Mantec Plate (with three "dings"), BCB rope, Hidden winch (hidden in garage...), Webasto timer (in box), TorqTuned ((tee hee)˛), Origin b2 (in case), Traffic master jam warner (in expectation), FT8800, Motorola GM360, INTEK H-520+ (in a tangle)
|
| Thu Mar 20 2008 4:35pm |
|
|
al cope
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Oldbury, WM
Posts: 1596
|
I've seen LPG injection on a diesel truck, should give a much better burn - whey hey.
Why stop there, any NOX going spare.
Al TDV6 S - Tonga with Ebony
(and 19" RRS alloys, satnav & DVD)
Remember - You can only walk so far into the wilderness before you are walking out again
|
| Thu Mar 20 2008 4:44pm |
|
|
j,moore
Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Location: n.lincs
Posts: 106
|
the engine ecu does have a sensor in the air intake that monitors oxygen levels, but when the exhaust gasses from the egr intake passes the sensor the ecu detects the drop in oxygen and so decreaces the amount of fuel injected thus creating a drop in power.i am not sure but i dont think the injectors delay injection time they only inject more or less fuel acording to the volume of oxygen entering the intake.
regards, jim.
|
| Thu Mar 20 2008 6:40pm |
|
|
stapldm
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Location: In a queue for diesel
Posts: 854
|
j,moore, Looking for a lazy yet sneaky option here for those of us in warranty - is there any way the EGR can be blanked at the other end of that EGR pipe? Could a disc of metal or ball bearing or bung be inserted here to block it off, allowing all the work at the top of the engine?
If it was inside this connection it wouldn't be visible to the LR mechanics Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Terry Pratchett, Discworld
|
| Thu Mar 20 2008 11:11pm |
|
|
stapldm
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Location: In a queue for diesel
Posts: 854
|
j,moore wrote: but when the exhaust gasses from the egr intake passes the sensor the ecu detects the drop in oxygen
 Now we have an oxy-sensor getting covered in crud and coke without ever getting the opportunity of a high temp gas flow to cook it clean
Is there anything about EGR that is actually good for the engine  Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Terry Pratchett, Discworld
|
| Thu Mar 20 2008 11:22pm |
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
|
