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egr and butterfly valve pics
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Gareth
Site Moderator
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bob the Builders 'ere
Posts: 10216
 
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Just remember, anything you put into the egr circuit must be very secure. If it comes loose, it gets sucked into the engine and BOOM!! 
Thats why a proper stainless steel blanking plate and new gaskets is the only safe option. Silver TDV6 HSE
Pepper White Cooper S Convertible
Old English White MGB GT
Ex Military 109 Series 2a Soft Top
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 Thu Mar 20 2008 10:36pm |
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stapldm
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Location: Utterly Browned Off
Posts: 937
 
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Hmmm, well if you're going to put it like that.... 
 Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Terry Pratchett, Discworld
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| Thu Mar 20 2008 10:50pm |
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Rob Bruce
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 565
 
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Very good explanation and pics, defenitly on the to do list when warrenty runs out or dam the warrenty issues they would not notice it eneyway 
If I was a diesel engine I would not like a pipe from my exaust shuved into my intake  
Rob
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| Fri Mar 21 2008 7:00am |
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simonsi
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Location: Leicester
Posts: 878
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al cope wrote:you might like this comment, made about a test drive by Autocar in an RRS TDV8:
"Our only grumble, highlighted on tight, twisty roads, is the engine’s sluggishness...."
sound like good justification for blanking off the EGR to me.
Al
Al - certainly you can see from the pics that the butterfly valve appears large enough and to have enough movement available to almost completely close off the air intake, given the actuator will have a noticeable cycle time from closed to open I think the butterfly is almost certainly the cause of the TDV6 pickup hesitation - I intend to try removing just the butterfly plate first to see if that alters this aspect on its own as it will both remove tha ability of the engine to starve itself and by not creating vacuum it should reduce the ingestion of exhaust gases.
Then when I have made a couple of blanking plates I'll insert them too. Maybe we need to rename the butterfly valve the TLC valve - "Turbo Lag Creation"  Cheers
Simon
TDV6 S Auto - Zambezi Silver - JE Tune - RRS 19" - Sidesteps - Roof Rails
Body Side Strips - Xenons - Bright Pack - Cold Pack - Premium Stereo
Alpine Roof - Towpack - Alpine Touchscreen Satnav - Veba Rear DVD changer
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| Fri Mar 21 2008 8:34am |
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simonsi
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Location: Leicester
Posts: 878
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Well my butterfly valve is out, quite straightforward as per Jim's pics - the lower rear actuator-to-body screw ia a right royal pain though - I too refitted it without the lower rear screw - the screws only mount the actuator, not create an airtight seal or anything. Plus just think of the weight saving
Initial thoughts are there seems a tad less hesitation on low speed pullaway but I'd need more mileage and situations to be sure - and my EGRs are unblanked at the moment awaiting some suitable stainless plate. Cheers
Simon
TDV6 S Auto - Zambezi Silver - JE Tune - RRS 19" - Sidesteps - Roof Rails
Body Side Strips - Xenons - Bright Pack - Cold Pack - Premium Stereo
Alpine Roof - Towpack - Alpine Touchscreen Satnav - Veba Rear DVD changer
Alpine Roof Monitor - Webasto FBH Timer - Awesome Brembo Frt & S/C Rr Brakes
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| Fri Mar 21 2008 4:33pm |
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ridgeback_moor
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Location: Down 'ere
Posts: 612
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I've read on a couple of EGR sites that the introduction of exhaust gases reduces the exhaust gas temperature, which in turn leads to the reduction of Nitrogen Oxides (the main reason for having EGR systems). By preventing the EGRs from allowing the exhaust gases through is there a danger that the increased exhaust gas temperature can cause damage to the turbo or other exhaust component? I'm thinking it probably wouldn't be a problem if the EGRs are shut at high throttle settings anyway, but some of the wen sites I've read seem to suggest this is a potential problem with EGR blanking. I'm keen to do this mod also, but just want to make sure it's the right thing to do. D3 TDV6 S 2005 - TorqTune, Privacy Glass, Remote FBH, 19" HSE Alloys, Boot liner, retrofit F&R PDC, RAI
Defender 90 Truck Cab TD5 2003 - Ifor Williams back, alloys (SWMBO's toy - well, one of them  )
Toyota Yaris 2008 (SWMBO's company shopping trolley)
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| Fri Mar 21 2008 6:52pm |
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j,moore
Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Location: out on the piste, or the piss,,,
Posts: 133
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i recon the idea of exhaust gasses burning too hot is is a bit of scare mungering on the manufactures behalf. the only time the exhaust gasses can cause any heat damage is if the engine is hevily over fuelled as some diesel engine tuners sometimes find out. the only other damage that could posibly be caused is to the catilitic converter but i have never heard of this failing on a diesel engine only petrol ones. if anyone has any reservations concerning this or any mod then i would say dont do it. otherwise give it ago, i have done simlar mods on plenty of comercial, industrial and agricultural engines some of witch are pushed far beyond what an average tdv6 will ever see. engine manufacturers have to stick to strict emision laws and so they cannot be seen to be assisting private individuals to bypass the very systems they have spent so much time and money to develop to meet the laws. thats my opinion for what its worth.
regards, jim.
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| Fri Mar 21 2008 7:35pm |
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ridgeback_moor
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Location: Down 'ere
Posts: 612
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Jim, I agree with you, and the number of trouble free blanked EGRs on TD5s and Tdi engines seems to support this. One other point which you may be able to clarify, is that the introduction of some exhaust gas also reduces 'pinking' under partial load - I may be being thick, but do diesel engines suffer from pinking/pre ignition or is it just petrol engines? I've only just got my Disco 3, so can't compare it to others yet, but it sounds like mine is pinking when accelerating, but maybe that is just the sound that the TDV6 makes? If diesel engines can't pink then all feel free to.... D3 TDV6 S 2005 - TorqTune, Privacy Glass, Remote FBH, 19" HSE Alloys, Boot liner, retrofit F&R PDC, RAI
Defender 90 Truck Cab TD5 2003 - Ifor Williams back, alloys (SWMBO's toy - well, one of them )
Toyota Yaris 2008 (SWMBO's company shopping trolley)
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| Fri Mar 21 2008 7:45pm |
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j,moore
Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Location: out on the piste, or the piss,,,
Posts: 133
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all i can realy say is that mine dosent pink and i havent had a nother diesel that has done. pinking is normaly only caused on petrols using the wrong octaine fuels or incorect timing as far as i know. the only thing you somtimes get on a diesel is engine knock caused by diferent grades of fuel or when the engine is cold.
hope this helps, jim.
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| Fri Mar 21 2008 8:04pm |
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simonsi
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Location: Leicester
Posts: 878
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I'm with Jim, be very careful whether what you are reading re EGR relates to petrol or diesel engines, the ignition and fuel mixture principles are totally different.
eg for a petrol, weak mixture leads to overheating and piston meltdown. Weaken the mixture far enough on a diesel and you just get idle speed. Cheers
Simon
TDV6 S Auto - Zambezi Silver - JE Tune - RRS 19" - Sidesteps - Roof Rails
Body Side Strips - Xenons - Bright Pack - Cold Pack - Premium Stereo
Alpine Roof - Towpack - Alpine Touchscreen Satnav - Veba Rear DVD changer
Alpine Roof Monitor - Webasto FBH Timer - Awesome Brembo Frt & S/C Rr Brakes
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| Fri Mar 21 2008 9:17pm |
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wolster
Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Location: various
Posts: 352
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I guess our D3 EGR gaskets are a different size and shape to the TDi and TD5 ones which seem to have blanking plates a-go-go available for them? What if the "Hokey Cokey" really is what it's all about?
'54 TDV6 Auto SE, Silver, Leather, HSE Wheels, Alpine Roof, Light Guards, Black Side Tubes, Tints.
Y 110 County Commercial, White, just bought it... watch this space for added bits!
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| Fri Mar 21 2008 9:35pm |
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studiscoS
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 17
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The pictures were good to follow. Mines done and I have my normal acceleration back below 2000 rpm.
I've not noticed any decreased turbo lag, but I've driven around for about 2 weeks with one ERG not working. So its difficult to know.
I thought of putting disc in the top end of the EGR pipe; something like a 10pence piece. I don't think its possible to do this safely as the connection has a female and male union. The male pipe extends into the female to far.
Thats enough of that
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| Fri Mar 21 2008 11:51pm |
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AndrewW
Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Location: Saddleworth
Posts: 1419
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Gareth wrote:Just remember, anything you put into the egr circuit must be very secure. If it comes loose, it gets sucked into the engine and BOOM!!
As opposed to boom-boom 06 TDV6 SE Tonga Green
Mantec Plate (with three "dings"), BCB rope, Hidden winch (hidden in garage...), Webasto timer (in box), TorqTuned ((tee hee)²), Origin b2 (in case), Traffic master jam warner (in expectation), FT8800, Motorola GM360, INTEK H-520+ (in a tangle)
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| Fri Mar 21 2008 11:53pm |
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ridgeback_moor
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Location: Down 'ere
Posts: 612
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I'm now half way through this job, and just come in for a brew
So far so good - getting the fan cover and air pipe off was a bit of a struggle, but enough pulling sorted that
Removing the long bolt that goes through the platic assembly with the butterfly valve in it makes life easier, as you can then tilit the whole assembly up at the front which makes getting at the bottom bolt holding the actuator much easier. I left out the linkage from the actuator to the spindle, as it looks like it will be able to move freely without it. That bit's all back together now with all 4 bolts in place. Also the clips are off the top of each pipe - I used pliers to free them, not sure how easy it will be to put them back on, but we'll see later. Also the bottom pipe connections are off on both sides, where the pipes connect to the EGRs. That was pretty easy, as long as you have long enough extensions for the socket wrench to reach down to the bolt heads (you will need to use the socket set 'flexi' joint as well, because of the angles of each flange). Watch out for the bolts and gaskets dropping into the engine bay when you remove the pipes - luckily mine fell out the bottom onto the drive, but there's plenty of places for them to get stuck, so try to pick them out with some long nose pliers or the like. So now I need to make the blanks, which I'm about to do, from some mild steel plate. I've got a nice shiny sheet of aluminium plate in the workshop, but I'm not convinced it would be OK with the temperatures, even though there is no hot flowing gases once the plates are in place. The last thing I want is molten ali going up the pipes and into the manifolds though  Here goes... D3 TDV6 S 2005 - TorqTune, Privacy Glass, Remote FBH, 19" HSE Alloys, Boot liner, retrofit F&R PDC, RAI
Defender 90 Truck Cab TD5 2003 - Ifor Williams back, alloys (SWMBO's toy - well, one of them )
Toyota Yaris 2008 (SWMBO's company shopping trolley)
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| Sat Mar 22 2008 2:10pm |
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ridgeback_moor
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Location: Down 'ere
Posts: 612
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Job done Cheers for the original information Jim - about 4 hours from start to finish including making the blanks. Just took it for a blast and happy with it - knowing only clean fresh air is going into the engine. The black deposits in the EGR pipes and behind the butterfly valve make me more than happy that I've blanked them off now. Only pain in the  was dropping one of the pipe support clamp bolts, where it ended up on the sump plate, so that had to be removed (10 bolts to remove, tight as 'ell!). The LR service department can replace that for me on Tuesday when it's in for the 75K oil change. This forum is excellent - cheers to all contributors D3 TDV6 S 2005 - TorqTune, Privacy Glass, Remote FBH, 19" HSE Alloys, Boot liner, retrofit F&R PDC, RAI
Defender 90 Truck Cab TD5 2003 - Ifor Williams back, alloys (SWMBO's toy - well, one of them )
Toyota Yaris 2008 (SWMBO's company shopping trolley)
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| Sat Mar 22 2008 5:30pm |
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