JMC
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Location: Aberdeen-Angus. Where the Bull* comes from!
Posts: 4158
 
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| Kevlar / Composite Material |
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Anyone on here involved in the Kevlar / Composite industry???
I'm interested in getting a lot of stuff made from this, and ideally, I'd like to do it myself. 
Don't know if this is feasible but I'm hoping someone here will keep me right.......  The older I get, the more I realise that people confuse wrinkles for wisdom 
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 Wed Aug 27 2008 4:05pm |
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DiscoDunc
Joined: 08 May 2006
Location: Bristol
Posts: 2789
 
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what you making  , body Armour Duncan
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| Wed Aug 27 2008 4:15pm |
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countrywide
Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Location: Sunny South Coast
Posts: 1807
 
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Are you making body armour for your invasion of England
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| Wed Aug 27 2008 4:16pm |
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countrywide
Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Location: Sunny South Coast
Posts: 1807
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DiscoDunc wrote:what you making , body Armour
You got there first
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| Wed Aug 27 2008 4:17pm |
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DiscoDunc
Joined: 08 May 2006
Location: Bristol
Posts: 2789
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I think hes taking a shopping trip to Glasgow  Duncan
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| Wed Aug 27 2008 4:18pm |
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JMC
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Location: Aberdeen-Angus. Where the Bull* comes from!
Posts: 4158
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No guilt about carbon footprints here
15,000cc in the total car/bike collection but they are rarely used. In fact, your local commuter in a Pious probably spits out more CO2 than I do!! 
The irony of it all is that I end up paying a combined road tax of about £1500+ per year based on my potential CO2 output rather than the actual amount produced. 
 Labour Government The older I get, the more I realise that people confuse wrinkles for wisdom
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| Wed Aug 27 2008 4:53pm |
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Verydisco
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Location: A bit there, a bit over there and sometime at home in Biarritz, France
Posts: 179
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hi
you'll find mucho stuff on the web about it all
test try it all on regular fibreglass first
what are your plans mate ? Veridis Quo
"Roads ? Where we're going, we don't need roads !"
Looking for : Used DIII LHD TdV6 Auto
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| Wed Aug 27 2008 4:55pm |
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BLFarrar
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Location: Deepest, darkest Halifax, West Yorkshire
Posts: 606
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Kevlar / Carbon Fibre products basically fall into two categories:
1) cheap & cheerfull look alikes
2) the real thing - lightweight terrifically strong & very costly to make
what you get in the low cost look alikes just hasnt got the features of the real thing
- the costly stuff is made up in a process very similar to laying up GRP (Glass Reinforced Resin or "fibre glass")... Kevlar aramid fibre matting is laid into a mold or form, resins are applied than dependant on the size / shape & duty of the component covered in a special bag & a vaccum applied (holds material into mold shape) placed in an autoclave (apples surface pressure & controlled heating) & "cured".
Typical uses are aircraft parts that also can use "honey comb" materials that add shape & strength whilst keeping overall weight (mass) low, also high cost exotic car parts, "military hardware" etc.
It isnt a process that produces strong dependable parts by DIY methods - the proper ones are costly in terms of molds, the actual materials & the process plant + in the aircraft parts business testing whats been made is correctly "bonded" hugely expensive.
There are some downside things also:
Carbon Fibre - structurally strong for its designed use - not that good when invloved in an unplanned impact, or stresses such as a crash. it just breaks up.
If it has to be post process machined or cut, the cutting process has to be very effectively extracted & ventilated - the dust is nearly as bad as asbestos.
In the aircraft industry it often has to be "metalised" to make it conductive to allow it to conduct lighting strikes, this is best seen on engine nacelles before thay are painted (Engine nacelles are Shorts (noe Bombardier) speciality - they are or were world leaders in this field)
There are firms out there that "do" contract production of both the lookalike stuff & the real thing - costs are related to the type, duty & volumes required. No doubt someone on here will update/correct/disagree with what I have written - my exposure to the process was working at Shorts in Belfast (they made & still make aerostructures of the material) + I have been to a few small companies doing the same thing as a "spy"...
JMC......hope this helps ....have Disco3 HSE TD6 Auto...
....also S Type 2.7 Auto....
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| Wed Aug 27 2008 4:59pm |
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JMC
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Location: Aberdeen-Angus. Where the Bull* comes from!
Posts: 4158
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I've never done any type of fibre stuff before and I have already tried to find info on Google without much success - hence the question here. 
I'm keen to find out what would be involved in making car panels or one-off parts in carbon composite (like door cards etc.) Anything from a front wing, to a foot-plate, to covering the underside of the car......... The older I get, the more I realise that people confuse wrinkles for wisdom
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| Wed Aug 27 2008 5:03pm |
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grzesiul
Joined: 11 May 2008
Location: London
Posts: 33
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hey JMC
I used to do a lot of modeling and you got to have a few things before you begin:
a. patience - loads of it
b. lots of space to work in
c. that work space got to be temperature controlled especially for carbon fiber, different resins mixes do require different temps to make your life easier
d. CF is hell lot expensive and hard to work with - buy some cheap cloth and practise a lot on weird shaped objects
e. go and check carb.com awesome site for buying that black stuff
let me know what do you have in mind as I was thinking of the same thing especially for disco3 which is rather "fat"
greetz
grzesiul
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| Wed Aug 27 2008 5:47pm |
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BLFarrar
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Location: Deepest, darkest Halifax, West Yorkshire
Posts: 606
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Sorry to dissapoint you but I dont think Carbon Fibre composites are a DIY thing & the reuslts could be very unpredictable
There is a huge difference between the cosmetic stuff & the real thing.
Quote:I'm keen to find out what would be involved in making car panels or one-off parts in carbon composite (like door cards etc.) Anything from a front wing, to a foot-plate, to covering the underside of the car
JMC - start here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_fiber_reinforced_plastic
this is a good write up of composite materials with a good reference to automotive
it hasnt & I believe won't make it onto mass market production vehicles purely on the reasons of production cost outwieghing any perfoarmance Kg mass benefits & that existing materials do the same task.
Its only very upmarket cars (McLaren etc) that venture into this type of limited production run venture...they have the resource (MB are tied up in aerostructuire manufacture so have access to autoclaves etc). ....have Disco3 HSE TD6 Auto...
....also S Type 2.7 Auto....
Last edited by BLFarrar on Wed Aug 27 2008 7:07pm; edited 1 time in total
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| Wed Aug 27 2008 7:03pm |
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simon
Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Location: ...
Posts: 15001
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JMC wrote:
The irony of it all is that I end up paying a combined road tax of about £1500+ per year based on my potential CO2 output rather than the actual amount produced.
Labour Government
Bit like carbon offsetting new LR products. You still pay for CO2 output as a tax even though you've effectively emitted none 
Good luck with the carbon fibre stuff 
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| Wed Aug 27 2008 7:05pm |
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