Ent
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Location: Up the Khyber Pass
Posts: 429
 
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As the topic title suggest my 20" V spoke Super charger's are rubbing ever so slightly it must be a minute amount as I've had them on for 20,000 plus miles and has only come to light at my 30,000 mile service. My question is about wether you can use 5/6mm spacers safely? I dont know a great deal about them but surely a spacer this thin will not create a great deal of extra load on wheel bearings or transfer the load bearing from hub to wheel studs? Any input gladly recieved. Is that your head or as your neck been sick?
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 Tue Sep 30 2008 6:12pm |
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ronp
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Location: over the edge!!
Posts: 4616
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I read recently that the bolt on ones were safest.
But these generally tend to be a massive 30mm.
And that the 'dangerous' type are the ones that just slip over the existing studs.
Seemed strange to me, would have thought it would have been the other way about especially with slip on ones up to say around 10mm.
It's possibly down to the wheel bolts bite on the thread being compromised.
 slowly re-building my gallery after the wipe out !!!!
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"The BEAST"
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| Tue Sep 30 2008 6:21pm |
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Ent
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Location: Up the Khyber Pass
Posts: 429
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cheers Ron. I've got 5mm of tread to get through before I can put yours on. I think 5mm will cure the rubbing but I need to know its safe before I do anything.Ken? Is that your head or as your neck been sick?
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| Tue Sep 30 2008 6:28pm |
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al cope
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Oldbury, WM
Posts: 1814
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if they werent rubbing, and now are (and I'm guessing its the tyre up at the top of the suspension), this would make me think play in wheel bearings.
If not, where exactly are they rubbing
Al TDV6 S - Tonga with Ebony
(and 19" RRS alloys, and 20" RRS alloys, and 19" RRS alloys, and........back on 20's - finally, honest, satnav & DVD)
Remember - You can only walk so far into the wilderness before you are walking out again
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| Tue Sep 30 2008 6:29pm |
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Ent
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Location: Up the Khyber Pass
Posts: 429
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Unnecessary quote removed
Your spot on Al with the area rubbing but I dont think it is bearings as both sides are the same. I think they only rub on full lock, but I've never heard a noise coming from the wheel arch whilst at full lock. There are no significant marks on the inside of the tyre so it could just be when they have been through a bit of mud and it has collected on the inside tyre wall? I'll whip a wheel off tomorrow and have a good look. Is that your head or as your neck been sick?
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| Tue Sep 30 2008 7:19pm |
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al cope
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Oldbury, WM
Posts: 1814
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are you running 295/45's or 275/45's. I know with the 295/45x20's on mine, the gap to the top suspension arm was very close, although it never gets any smaller. In theory, both side wheel bearing should have worn at the same rate, so be interesting to see if both sides have rubbed.
Let us know
Al TDV6 S - Tonga with Ebony
(and 19" RRS alloys, and 20" RRS alloys, and 19" RRS alloys, and........back on 20's - finally, honest, satnav & DVD)
Remember - You can only walk so far into the wilderness before you are walking out again
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| Tue Sep 30 2008 7:57pm |
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Ent
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Location: Up the Khyber Pass
Posts: 429
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Unnecessary quote removed
I'm running 275/50/R20's and it has rubbed on both sides in exactly the same way. Mine to had very little clearance when I first put them on but I assumed the gap would still be maintained. Is that your head or as your neck been sick?
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| Tue Sep 30 2008 8:18pm |
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al cope
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Oldbury, WM
Posts: 1814
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well that implies something has worn equally on both sides over your 20k miles to let the top of the wheel/tyre move inwards slightly. I'd checkout all the bottom suspension components (and the wheel bearings) for any play.
Al TDV6 S - Tonga with Ebony
(and 19" RRS alloys, and 20" RRS alloys, and 19" RRS alloys, and........back on 20's - finally, honest, satnav & DVD)
Remember - You can only walk so far into the wilderness before you are walking out again
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| Wed Oct 01 2008 1:19pm |
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Ent
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Location: Up the Khyber Pass
Posts: 429
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Cheers Al, will do! Is that your head or as your neck been sick?
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| Wed Oct 01 2008 1:44pm |
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ronp
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Location: over the edge!!
Posts: 4616
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Would still be good to know the situation re safety on fitment of the two types [slip on & bolt on] of wheel spacers.
1] for extra clearance for the fitting snow chains
2] for those that experiencing rubbing with their new sets of wheels/tyres. slowly re-building my gallery after the wipe out !!!!
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"The BEAST"
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| Wed Oct 01 2008 2:49pm |
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al cope
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Oldbury, WM
Posts: 1814
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you must have a fairly decent mileage on your 20's Ron, any sign that the clearenec at the top has reduced?
Al TDV6 S - Tonga with Ebony
(and 19" RRS alloys, and 20" RRS alloys, and 19" RRS alloys, and........back on 20's - finally, honest, satnav & DVD)
Remember - You can only walk so far into the wilderness before you are walking out again
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| Wed Oct 01 2008 2:50pm |
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ronp
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Location: over the edge!!
Posts: 4616
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Non whatsoever Al
Even when I had the wheel bearings go, there were no clearance isues.
But if you recall I had a large gap between the tyre and upright versus others.
Would re-post the pic but my gallery has been wiped  slowly re-building my gallery after the wipe out !!!!
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"The BEAST"
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| Wed Oct 01 2008 2:52pm |
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simonsi
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Location: Leicester
Posts: 880
 
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ronp wrote:Would still be good to know the situation re safety on fitment of the two types
"Thick" spacers that bolt on need to be thick as the thickness has to hide the nuts/boltheads, need to be carefully designed and tested as the whole load is carried by the spacer on its way to the std hub. These spacers are required for instance when you change the bolt pattern, eg fitting D2 wheels to a D1.
"Thin" spacers can use the std bolts/studs/nuts and in theory should be as strong as without the spacer - assuming that the thread length held by the nut/bolt is as std - if closed head nuts you may need to measure the thread length inside the nuts to check. If the amount of thread used is reduced because the nut is further out on the stud due to the spacer then the strength of the wheel hub interface is reduced.
Spacers can be avoided by having a wheel with the required offset change to move the tyre further outboard - which is what a spacer does.
Wheel bearing load is affected by the tyre position relative to the wheel bearing, either spacers or wheels can cause this to change for the worse, or spacers can be used to correct an otherwise "bad" offset wheel by bringing the tyre into the position it would be as std so avoiding a wheel bearing potential issue..
Personally I don't like any spacers due to the effect on the geometry but I won't have/trust "thick" spacers defined as above.
Any type of spacer increases the possibilty of increased runout on the wheel as they place more stuff/joints twixt wheel and hub. Cheers
Simon
TDV6 S Auto - Zambezi Silver - JE Tune - RRS 19" - Sidesteps - Roof Rails
Body Side Strips - Xenons - Bright Pack - Cold Pack - Premium Stereo
Alpine Roof - Towpack - Alpine Touchscreen Satnav - Veba Rear DVD changer
Alpine Roof Monitor - Webasto FBH Timer - Awesome Brembo Frt & S/C Rr Brakes
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| Wed Oct 01 2008 3:05pm |
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simonsi
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Location: Leicester
Posts: 880
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ronp wrote:But if you recall I had a large gap between the tyre and upright versus others.
Just a thought but maybe that is why you never had the 20" shimmy, if your wheels were further outboard compared to others (ie more clearance), that would change the natural frequency of a side-to-side shimmy through the rack from one side to the other.... Cheers
Simon
TDV6 S Auto - Zambezi Silver - JE Tune - RRS 19" - Sidesteps - Roof Rails
Body Side Strips - Xenons - Bright Pack - Cold Pack - Premium Stereo
Alpine Roof - Towpack - Alpine Touchscreen Satnav - Veba Rear DVD changer
Alpine Roof Monitor - Webasto FBH Timer - Awesome Brembo Frt & S/C Rr Brakes
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| Wed Oct 01 2008 3:07pm |
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al cope
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Oldbury, WM
Posts: 1814
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but Ron always said his Stormers were "normal" 53mm offset, and 9.5" wide (20x9.5), and running 295/45x20 tyres, so I never could see how he had more clearance.
Al TDV6 S - Tonga with Ebony
(and 19" RRS alloys, and 20" RRS alloys, and 19" RRS alloys, and........back on 20's - finally, honest, satnav & DVD)
Remember - You can only walk so far into the wilderness before you are walking out again
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| Wed Oct 01 2008 3:14pm |
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