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Engine System Failure
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pchester
 


Member Since: 04 Jul 2012
Location: Ludlow
Posts: 8

United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Buckingham BlueDiscovery 3
Engine System Failure

Engine System Failure Message – limp home mode

Disco 3 TDV6 HSE (2006) 2.7 Auto. 78k miles.

I am regularly getting the following problem when driving (no particular common pattern in relation to speed, load, terrain, etc). All the dashboard warning lights will come on, doors unlock, hazards come on, and Disco goes into limp home mode (minimum power, partial gears, sometimes low height suspension mode). The dashboard error message is “Engine System Failure”. If I stop and turn the engine off, it either:-

a) Will not start at all (no dashboard lights at all, just "System Check" message when you turn the key – engine does not turn or anything work – ie vehicle immobilised). After 20 mins it will reset itself and start OK.
b) Starts, but is still in limp home mode

The vehicle was taken to the local Land Rover dealer (Shukers) who were not particularly helpful; they charged £85 to tell me the battery was OK, reset the error codes and informed us that they would have to take the engine apart if the fault re occurred. So took it another local, non LR, garage that maintains Eon’s fleet of Land Rovers.

The diagnostics revealed at least 30 error codes each time the system failure occurred, across all the ecu diagnostic groups. It is therefore difficult to trace the cause. Various threads have indicated that if a low voltage or poor signal is received on a sensor, it can throw the ecu into complete disarray. Threads also detail similar experiences where expensive repairs have been undertaken to no avail.

The work to date has been:-

The battery has been checked and is OK. Battery connections checked and OK. ECUs checked and clean. As many sensor connections cleaned and checked as possible (without stripping down engine bay). As soon as a failure occurs, diagnostics almost immediately run to check error codes. This has shown some common error codes:-

P0405 (EGR sensor A circuit low), P1335 (EGR position sensor minimum stop performance), P0404 (EGR circuit range/performance) and a strange P1621 (immobilizer code words do not match) - can't find much detail on this code for a LR.

So my questions are,

Has anybody had similar mass failure of the ecu diagnostics, if so how did you track down the fault?

Has anybody had a similar mass failure of the ecu diagnostics with an EGR problem, if so what was the remedy?

Anybody had any experience with the P1621 code – maybe a key fob and/or receiver issue?

This is a potentially dangerous scenario as almost complete loss of power when overtaking, emerging from blind junctions, etc could result in a nasty accident. Land Rover customer services were not willing to help, insisting that any technical help would have to come via a dealer. I don’t have any faith in the local LR dealer. The LR technical team won’t talk to a non LR garage. Looking at the number of threads on forums that detail a similar problem with the Engine System Failure on the Discovery 3, it looks like a widespread and not uncommon problem.

Hopefully someone knows an answer.

Thanks in advance

Paul


UPDATE:-

There was a problem with the EGR's as indicated by teh diagnostics. These have been replaced but the problem has not been fixed. However the nature of teh problem appears to have changed, so a new thread has been posted under www.disco3.co.uk/forum/post963411.html#963411
 

Last edited by pchester on 7th Aug 2012 2:35 pm. Edited 1 time in total 
Post #9504814th Jul 2012 2:18 pm
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ELD70
 


Member Since: 28 Jan 2008
Location: Romford.
Posts: 901

United Kingdom 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

Sounds like a job for Ten for Cash to me.....
  
Post #9504884th Jul 2012 3:04 pm
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DSL
Keeper of the wheelie bin 


Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72742

Ukraine 

As you say, loads on here re ESF faults and no "This is the cause" conclusion. Agreed, it's f Censored ing dangerous and have had a number of shutdowns in heavy traffic, all very well if the engine protects itself but kills the squishy bit behind the wheel. Mine was fixed with a new turbo, MAP sensor & replacing the non LR fuel filter that was fitted by a LR stealer. You may have multiple issues, some of which are putting your car in crash mode, it's a case of trying to elimate them one by one. Alternatively get rid of the car, which I would have done in a heart beat had I known it would have taken 9 months to sort mine out.
  
Post #9504914th Jul 2012 3:21 pm
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Gareth
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Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26683

United Kingdom 

Sounds like a can-bus problem. I think it needs to go to a specialist who knows what to look for.

Have you checked the plugs on the ecu's behind the battery for corrosion?
Whe did it start doing it, and was there anything significant that occurred to trigger the first occurrence?
  
Post #9506974th Jul 2012 9:17 pm
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character
 


Member Since: 31 Dec 2007
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5779

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Auto Alaska WhiteDiscovery 3

IMO recon ECU's been fried, has the car been jump started at all prior to the problems.... Whistle
  
Post #9507664th Jul 2012 11:08 pm
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chalky
 


Member Since: 21 Aug 2008
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 3145

England 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 XS Manual Tonga GreenDiscovery 3

Shocked
Have you removed the felt strip from the glove box lid ?
Confused
 Only dead fish go with the Flow !  
Post #9507684th Jul 2012 11:16 pm
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Disco_Mikey
 


Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20713

Scotland 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Cairns BlueDiscovery 3

Gareth wrote:
Sounds like a can-bus problem. I think it needs to go to a specialist who knows what to look for.


Got it in one.

I agree, it would be best going to a specialist who knows what they are doing. It could end up turning into a long and expensive diagnostic process otherwise.

Basically, you need to isolate each ECU at a time, when the fault is present, and re-make the CAN-BUS circuit with the module unplugged.
The module wont communicate with the diagnostic machine, but will bring the HS CAN network back up

From experience, I would start with the EPB module Thumbs Up
 My D3 Build Thread

TDV8 Retrofit Build Thread 
 
Post #9507845th Jul 2012 5:35 am
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pchester
 


Member Since: 04 Jul 2012
Location: Ludlow
Posts: 8

United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Buckingham BlueDiscovery 3

Hi Gareth

Thanks for the post.
Quote:
"Have you checked the plugs on the ecu's behind the battery for corrosion?"

Removed battery and checked ecu units; they were dry, clean and OK.
Quote:
"When did it start doing it?"

About 3 months ago on a regular basis, did have one transmission message a year ago but the fault code was cleared and it never re-occurred.
Quote:
" was there anything significant that occurred to trigger the first occurrence?"

Nothing obvious but only event that might be relevant is that keys were replaced 18 months ago (one lost - have to replace both and recode vehicle). I wondered if this had a bearing on the "P1621 Immobilizer code words do not match." This code re occurs each time as one of the first error codes. Originally thought the problem was the key & immobiliser as, when it first occurred, we started using the other key and the problem went away. However I think now this was co incidence as the problem now occurs with both keys.
The only other variant is that it appears to be more prone to failure when it is warmer (not hat we have had much warm weather) - problem did not occur at all on colder days but appears to be more likely on hotter days. It would appear when the air conditioning was in use - eradication this as a cause by turning climate control off and problem still arose.

I do need a specialist, someone with a good Land Rover specific set of diagnostics. Not many of those around in Shropshire

Thanks

Paul
  
Post #9523959th Jul 2012 12:38 pm
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pchester
 


Member Since: 04 Jul 2012
Location: Ludlow
Posts: 8

United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Buckingham BlueDiscovery 3

Hi character

Thanks for the post
character wrote:
IMO recon ECU's been fried, has the car been jump started at all prior to the problems.... Whistle


Never jumped the land rover but I have used the Land Rover to jump other vehicles. Always had engine running when jumping other vehicle. Could jumping another vehicle short out the ecu in any way?

Thanks

Paul
  
Post #9523979th Jul 2012 12:42 pm
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pchester
 


Member Since: 04 Jul 2012
Location: Ludlow
Posts: 8

United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Buckingham BlueDiscovery 3

Hi Chalky

Thanks for the post.
chalky wrote:
Shocked
Have you removed the felt strip from the glove box lid ?
Confused


No but I'm not sure I can recall seeing any felt strip around the glove box lid. Is there a thread anywhere that would explain this a bit more?

Thanks

Paul
  
Post #9523989th Jul 2012 12:48 pm
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pchester
 


Member Since: 04 Jul 2012
Location: Ludlow
Posts: 8

United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Buckingham BlueDiscovery 3

Hi Disco Mikey

Quote:
it would be best going to a specialist


Thanks for the post - shame you are up in Scotland and not the Welsh borders.

Quote:
Basically, you need to isolate each ECU at a time, when the fault is present, and re-make the CAN-BUS circuit with the module unplugged.


Will follow this route. I might start with EGR as this consistently re occurs. I still suspect that the P1621 code has a bearing - if the key & immobiliser thinks something is wrong could it then result in all the lost communication messages?

I've posted below a typical full set of error codes that usually arise, the first 4 are consistent. Could the rest arise from either a power supply problem to the ecus or a duff/corroded connection on a sensor sending a less than 5v signal to the ecu which then results in the ecu misdiagnosing things?

Many thanks for your input, it is much appreciated.

Regards

Paul

Full Diagnostics:-

ECU group : Diesel 2.7L TdV6
P0405 Exhaust gas recirculation sensor A - circuit low.
P1335 Exhaust gas recirculation position sensor minimum stop performance.
P0404 Exhaust gas recirculation control – circuit range/performance.
P1621 Immobilizer code words do not match.
U0121 Lost communication with ABS control module.
U0164 Lost communication with heating ventilation and air conditioning control module.
U0155 Lost communication with instrument cluster control module.
P1935 Brake switch/sensor signal.
P1934 Vehicle speed signal.
U0138 Lost communication with all terrain control module.

ECU group : Transfer Case:
U0073 Control module communication bus off. Bus signal / message failure - Bus off
U0155 Lost communication with instrument cluster control module. Bus signal / message failure - Missing message
U0126 Lost communication with request steering angle sensor module. Bus signal / message failure - Missing message
U0122 Lost communication with vehicle dynamics control module. Bus signal / message failure - Missing message
U0138 Lost communication with all terrain control module. Bus signal / message failure - Signal invalid

ECU group : Transmission
U0155 Lost communication with instrument cluster control module. Bus signal / message failure - Missing message

ECU group : All Terrain

U0122 Lost communication with vehicle dynamics control module. Bus signal / message failure - Missing message
U0300 Internal control module software incompatibility. System programming failure – Not configured

ECU group : ABS/VDM
C1A00 Control module Bus signal / message failure - Bus off

ECU group : Ride Level
U0126 Lost communication with steering angle sensor module. Bus signal / message failure - Missing message
U0300 Internal control module software incompatibility. System programming failure – Not configured

ECU group : Parking Brake Module
U0155 Lost communication with instrument cluster control module. Bus signal / message failure - Missing message
U0100 Lost communication with engine control module/powertrain control module. Bus signal / message failure - Missing message
U0122 Lost communication with vehicle dynamics control module. Bus signal / message failure - Missing message
U0101 Lost communication with transmission control module. Bus signal / message failure - Missing message
  
Post #9524039th Jul 2012 12:58 pm
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Africaextreme
 


Member Since: 08 May 2013
Location: Pietermaritzburg
Posts: 8

South Africa 2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Auto Unknown ColourDiscovery 3

What was the outcome Paul
  
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