Member Since: 05 Nov 2011
Location: Scotland
Posts: 5
Engine Failure
I'd really welcome any thoughts on my current predicament!
Last week I was driving along at 65 mph and the engine lost power. For a couple of minutes before the engine stopped something didn't feel quite right but I couldn't put my finger on it. Revs were about normal (maybe slightly higher), no warning lights on at all and temperature gauge bang in the middle the whole time.
To my horror when I pulled over and opened the bonnet it was clear the engine had overheated. The first thing the recovery guy did was check oil levels, coolant, water, etc and everything was as it should be. The vehicle was towed to the nearest garage (helpfully that was Strathearn Engineering at Aberuthven) with the diagnosis being a new engine is required. Ouch.
The vehicle is a 2008 Disco 3 with full service history and 54k miles.
After I had come round I phoned Landrover Customer relations to explain what had happened and that I was very disappointed that a new engine was required in a 5 year old vehicle after 50 odd thousand miles.
We agreed that if I got the car to the nearest dealership they would run a diagnostic test to establish what the cause of the problem was and verify that my version of events was correct, that the car had not been abused, driven inappropriately, warning lights hadn't been on for days, etc.
I had no problem with that as I knew what had happened. The result are back and there is no suggestion that I have done anything wrong / inappropriate. When they drained the oil it had metal particles in it and unfortunately the original diagnosis is correct - new engine required.
They have suggested that the oil filter may not have been on straight and that this may be the cause of the metal particles in the oil. I am sceptical, as the last service was 10 months ago and I have done 8,000 miles since then with no issues and have not touched the oil filter.
The dealer has sent the results to Land Rover customer relations and I have asked for a copy of the results and the same information that they send on to HQ. I have a feeling that Land Rover may try and hide behind the oil filter. Any advice on whether this could be the cause of such terminal engine failure would be much appreciated?!
Andy
3rd Jun 2013 2:54 pm
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20727
Do you know what make the oil filter is?
Sounds exactly the same failure as my engine suffered, and that was a poor quality oil filter...
The oil filter was not fitted squint though.
There have also been a few members reporting the oil light staying on for longer than normal, with a dodgy filterMy D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 16 Nov 2010
Location: Perth & Kinross
Posts: 624
I was thinking that sounded like what had described when a spurious oil filter was used, which caused low oil pressure, resulting in a noisy bottom end.
Andy's case sounds like a sudden failure compared to your that there was maybe more notice???
3rd Jun 2013 3:28 pm
AndyHutch
Member Since: 05 Nov 2011
Location: Scotland
Posts: 5
Hi Mike,
I think you were the very helpful guy at Strathearn that broke the news to me a couple of weeks ago when I arrived on the tow truck?!
Land Rover initially suggested that they should be able to do something if I got it checked out at Stratstones and my story made sense. They've done the diagnostics which shows no abuse or driving with warning lights on, although they have picked up on the filter.
I'll post the photos when I get them. If it was changed at the last service it was at Strathearn so I'd guess the filter was reasonable quality.
Thanks for your help.
Andy
3rd Jun 2013 6:02 pm
tomtom86
Member Since: 09 Mar 2013
Location: Here and there
Posts: 590
How can you fit a tdv6 oil filter incorrectly when there is a locater on it? The housing will not screw in fully without the locating peg in its hole. I think they may be feeding you a story to try and avoid paying there to be honest!
Sounds exactly the same failure as my engine suffered, and that was a poor quality oil filter...
The oil filter was not fitted squint though.
There have also been a few members reporting the oil light staying on for longer than normal, with a dodgy filter
That's an interesting one - after a service (by a local reputable indi) in the middle of last year, my oil light was staying on longer than I would have expected - I did a few thousand miles in it, but changed the oil and filter (Genuine one) before I went to France on holiday - and a few thousand miles after that, the engine failed - crank thrust bearing.
There was no obvious problem with the filter I took off and nothing in it that I could see (Though wasn't looking)
Too late for me to do anything with LR - and I doubt they would have been interested if a non genuine filter had been fitted at the indi service anyway.
I expect my next service will be back at the local main dealer - who has already promised to do a discount on the normal price. Won't be for a few thousand miles, which might be 6months or might be 3, depending on my movementsMark.
2006, D3 SE Auto - gone but not forgotten.
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3rd Jun 2013 7:02 pm
piper5
Member Since: 01 Jul 2012
Location: fife
Posts: 116
what filters are good and bad, strathearn where mikey works just sold me a britpart service kit in a big box, i havent looked inside to see what makes are in it but i suppose white britpart
3rd Jun 2013 8:28 pm
tomtom86
Member Since: 09 Mar 2013
Location: Here and there
Posts: 590
Mahle are oem oil filters for the disco3
3rd Jun 2013 8:48 pm
blue200tdi
Member Since: 23 Sep 2012
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 1094
My oil light stays on longer than I would like when started from cold. I think I'll head in the direction of Duckworths tomorrow to by a genuine filter. You guys are gonna be busier than a test bench in a plunger factory!
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3rd Jun 2013 11:30 pm
haroosh
Member Since: 16 Nov 2010
Location: Perth & Kinross
Posts: 624
i am finding this one quite hard to understand how an oil filter could lead to these problems if its a genuine filter used....
3rd Jun 2013 11:41 pm
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20727
If we had serviced it last, it would have been either Britpart, or Bearmach filters that were used. We have been using them for 5 years now, and never had an issue, so I suspect it is not the oil filter. In my case, it was a poor quality oil filter causing low oil pressure. A new oil filter cured that, but that damage had already been done
For some reason, the 08MY engines appear to suffer from issues, more than any other MY. Have seen 3 blown 08's in the last few months...My D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 27 Nov 2012
Location: Southampton
Posts: 2648
Filter quality
First of all it is sad to hear of another engine failure and the associated expense involved, but do not jump to conclusions blaming any one product until there is proof. (Defending someone else’s product here, not my supply)
I will speak with Mahle & Wix today to get some technical knowledge that I can't answer right now.
The paper element filter does nothing, no valve built in, even the poorest quality filter should just sit there and do nothing perhaps other than not filter very well, unless it is made of cardboard!
Having said that, the locating spigot on the base of it has a seal on it so it obviously does more than locate, does it push down on a pressure relief valve? If this is the case can a poorly designed filter just be a poor fit there and what effect does that have?
These are the questions I will raise today with both Mahle & Wix Technical departments.
Anyway do understand chaps that LR (like all VMs) don't make filters but they do specify what they want, for European vehicles we sell Wix & Mahle, both of these companies supply OEM filters to LR (and lots of others). I would also recommend Mann Hummel, I am sure there are others that are fine but I have no experience of them.
Also worth noting that in my experience, cheap ones are indeed just that, the big filter suppliers do not make all of their own filters because of costs but rather than infill from cheap sources they will often co-operate and so as an example if you open a Mahle KC241D fuel filter anywhere in Europe today you will find a Stanadyne OE filter in the box, sometimes it is too expensive to make your own (proper) version when the volumes are low, sometimes there will be a patent on the design.Paul Redding
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4th Jun 2013 7:07 am
AndyHutch
Member Since: 05 Nov 2011
Location: Scotland
Posts: 5
Thanks for all the responses.
I'm highly sceptical that the oil filter is the cause, but was curious as to other peoples thoughts.
I'll let you know how I get on with Land Rover.
Andy
4th Jun 2013 7:52 am
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Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
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Posts: 21361
I don't know why, but I only ever use genuine oil filters.
The logic above is all valid, but I stick to genuine for oil and fuel specifically. In fact for air as well but that's just me...Bodsys Brake Bible
I see it like this, if I'm going to save the £s by servicing my self be that oil and filters or bushes and parts. why buy cheap, get quality and value, but not cheap, for me its Mahle (OEM) from a local factor Altox GSM FBH controller thread
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