Member Since: 08 Sep 2020
Location: Buckley, North Wales
Posts: 1150
Sorry I don’t understand the 100kg nose?
I’ve got an inform Williams trailer twin axle 3.5 tonne. With a marquee. So it’s as good as full capacity.
Is the standard tow bar safe?
22nd Sep 2020 5:24 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13576
aja4x4 wrote:
gstuart wrote:
Many thks and most appreciated
Nows there’s a thought that never entered my mind with regards to twin axles , suppose all down to experience gauging it , including the weight of the overall towing set up, out of curiosity do u ever use the council weigh ins plse
Indeed some great ideas now available
As a kid never understood why dad when loading the caravan shouted at us if we threw things in or moved items around , if I remember rightly it was an Eccles caravan with the gas lamps , the an ace globetrotter
Was always a standing joke that the old form consul would overheat going over the hogs back
Most appreciated
It is down to experience you get to know how the trailer or caravan tows and moving things around can make things better or worse. I know that my Discovery likes a lot of nose weight but you also have to take into account all the axle weights of the vehicle and trailer.
Many thks and indeed wondered that ref experience with the way the vehicle drives etc and changing loads nose weight accordingly
All the time as a kid never saw the caravan once ever snake or get out of hand
However , never forget seeing a caravan overturn in front of me down a motorway , was like in slow motion watching it shatter into pieces , car went over with it , everyone got out safe
Last edited by gstuart on 22nd Sep 2020 5:46 pm. Edited 1 time in total
22nd Sep 2020 5:45 pm
aja4x4
Member Since: 14 Apr 2019
Location: Westbury
Posts: 2459
Nose weight is the verticle weight the coupling places straight down on the towball.
The standard fixed towbar is safe up to its rated plated weight
The detachable towbar is the same but its only for occasional use as the socket in the chassis can wear and eventually the detachable part can fall out.
This wont happen as long as you only use it occasionally, you remove it when not being used and you connect thebrake away cable to the chassis and not the detachable part.
22nd Sep 2020 5:46 pm
riverblanche
Member Since: 31 Aug 2010
Location: retford'ish
Posts: 2206
Hi CMB,
not sure how much you have towed in the past or if you have done any trailer training
the D3 will do the job no problem but as said for a stable outfit you need to consider a number of things, including the nose weight and loading of the trailer and how this can affect the handling and braking of the outfit
Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: Argyll
Posts: 2855
Hi again CMB
To try and clarify:
The 3,500kg is the towing capacity of the vehicle, towbar and (if suitably plated) the trailer. This is designed to provide a appropriate margin of safety with regard to the typical forces which might be placed on the system when accelerating, cornering or braking. Most JLR vehicles are rated to 3,500 kg whereas some of the pickups you see towing trailers with 2.7 tonne diggers around the country are not. Your D3 is up to the job (legally) of towing the trailer and marquee provided their combined weight is less than 3,500 kg.
The nose weight is the static load which is placed on the tow bar by the trailer hitch when coupled, and can be affected by the way in which the load is distributed in the trailer/caravan/whatever.
One important thing to consider (esp with a leaf-sprung Ifor) is the relative height of both the tow bar and the hitch prior to coupling. Whilst the D3 will self-level it is preferable to get the hitch and towball as close to the same height as possible. The leaf springs on the Ifors are pretty dang strong and I have, in the past, seen a trailer with a hitch that is higher than the tow ball raise the rear end of our Defender. This is partly why the fixed towbar with adjustable hitch plate may be preferred by those of us who tow different trailers etc (although it also makes a very good ground anchor when working off-road!).Currently 2009 Disco 3 SE and 2013 MY D4 HSE
Previously:
TD5 Defender 110 CSW (230k miles)
300TDi Disco 1 (289k)
4 RR Classics (300-350k each, 2 manual, 2 auto)
110 V8 CSW (220k)
S3 109 hi cap pickup (ex RN)
S2A 88 Safari SW with lpg conversion (bloody lethal)
24th Sep 2020 9:48 am
cmb2020
Member Since: 08 Sep 2020
Location: Buckley, North Wales
Posts: 1150
Great I’m with you! Thank you!
So I’d be best loading the trailer hitch on to a set of scales, using a block of wood, to weigh the nose of the trailer. Then keep the load exactly the same each time, knowing it will be ideal.
What is the best nose weight to have please? I’ve seen a few monitions but what is the one that will keep gods happy please?
Also, tow bar and hitch are pretty much perfect in normal mode
24th Sep 2020 9:54 am
al cope
Member Since: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Oldbury, WM
Posts: 10289
and if you are new to towing there are a different set of speed limits to adhere to. That means 60mph on the motorway (check out the other limits for 2 lane and dual carriageways) and you mustn't use the outside lane of a three (or more) lane motorway.
AlVolvo XC90 B5 Plus Dark
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Old - MY12 D4 SDV6 XS Auto - Ipanema Sand with Almond Leather - Plus other niceties, and D4.com sticker
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24th Sep 2020 9:59 am
L319
Member Since: 14 Dec 2013
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 2079
Plus one also needs the correct driving license
24th Sep 2020 10:07 am
garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1114
This video demonstrates why balance and ball weight is important - a rule of thumb is that 10% of the trailer weight should be on the ball - can be as low as 5% but starts to become unstable.
24th Sep 2020 2:05 pm
Duc750
Member Since: 07 Aug 2017
Location: northampton
Posts: 305
10% up to the maximum npse weight rating and then no more (in theory)
as previously said though nose weight is hugely effected by hitch and coupling height which can be difficult to guage on an air sprung vehicle that self levels.
Ideally Hitch, drive a bit, then check.
If you have negative hitch weight it will feel awful by the way and you will end up on one of those horrible youtube videos. Its interesting how those always seem to show Ifor multi axle trailers though. Whilst being great trailers I think they may be less forgiving of poor loading and use05 D3 V8 HSE, LR Passion tree bars, wildbear compressor guard, LRP switch panel, ARB rear locker + compressor, Trigger 6 shooter electrical system
12 RRS SDV6 HSE (Hers) - Gone and replaced with an I Pace - I can tell you now EV is not the future yet
Metalian Camper trailer
24th Sep 2020 2:24 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13576
Hiya
Hope this finds everyone is keeping safe and well
Apologises for the daft questions, on the caravan my dad useto have a flat bar which I think was something that reduced sway
With regards to trailers , do they have the same type of anti sway technology that’s now incorporated within the towbar hitch plse , or are they different between caravans and trailers of how there designed
Many thks and hope u didn’t mind me asking
24th Sep 2020 4:21 pm
nigel207
Member Since: 26 Mar 2009
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 1342
No such thing as a daft question!
Caravans generally come with an integrated stabiliser in the hitch these days (I remember the flat blade Scott and Bulldog varieties too!). I think it would be unusual for a trailer to be so equipped though. Depending upon the chassis, it MIGHT be possible to fit one (Al-Ko).
However, I’ve been a judge for the annual Tow Car Awards since its inception, and all the stabilisers are removed from the caravans. A well matched outfit should never be unstable, but there are some dire tow vehicles out there (some that might surprise you), but the Discovery 3, 4 and current are supremely stable. The 4 was actually better stability wise than the current model according to data from the Al-Ko ATC units (fitted but not operative on the brakes) which constantly monitors the caravan’s stability when being tested.
24th Sep 2020 4:47 pm
waterbuoy
Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: Argyll
Posts: 2855
Stabilisers can be fitted to trailers - usually by bolting a bracket to part of the chassis/A-frame. The sprung unit then engages with this and a receiver which is bolted between the tow hitch and the mounting plate. This means they would work with the fixed tow-bar but I don't see how they could with the removeable.
I used to have one fitted to my Ifor but someone borrowed the trailer, bent the chassis ( ) and then forgot to ask the repairers to move the bracket over when fitting the new rail. They can make a difference but, as others have indicated, I don't think it is really necessary with the D3/4 and a well loaded trailer.Currently 2009 Disco 3 SE and 2013 MY D4 HSE
Previously:
TD5 Defender 110 CSW (230k miles)
300TDi Disco 1 (289k)
4 RR Classics (300-350k each, 2 manual, 2 auto)
110 V8 CSW (220k)
S3 109 hi cap pickup (ex RN)
S2A 88 Safari SW with lpg conversion (bloody lethal)
24th Sep 2020 5:36 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13576
Bless u and many thks for the great explanation
Ref weights as well always useto get so confused with toeing weights etc , but makes it a lot easier to understand from all the threads on here
Plus whilst browsing U tube, as u do , there are certainly some very nice trailer sets ups , with I also imagine an eye watering price tag
24th Sep 2020 7:52 pm
Erea
Member Since: 19 Mar 2012
Location: Munster
Posts: 1509
I must check my manual but as far as I remember when I got my Discovery back after the crossmember was replaced and the permanent hitch fitted there was an update for the manual stapled to the paperwork revising the detachable tow bar towing weights to 150kg nose weight and 750kg towing weight. But that’s here in Ireland.
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