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shawn
Member Since: 23 Aug 2005
Location: At the top of the hill
Posts: 574
  
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| towing limits on my caravan |
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hi all
can anyone tell me the maimum weight the d3 can tow is it 3500kg if so then my caravans maximum weight fully loaded is 1739kgs so does this mean i can load my caravan upto 1739kg. if so then i don't think i can get all my gear in for a 2 week trip to france i.e. 4 bikes etc etc
can i legally load the d3 boot to the limit and fit a bike rack for the 4 bikes then put the rest of the gear in the caravan as long as the van does not weigh more than 1739kg.
is this ok or would i be over loading the car/ the gross train weight/ the towing hitch
advide please i am confused 
cheers shawn bali blue disco 4 with rear dvd's, privacy glass, pre heat system, heated steering wheel, full size spare, piano black trim, ipod cable, 20 inch wheels and i love it loads more than my TDV8 RRS, KTM 250 EXC 2 Stroke for the real off road stuff
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 26th Feb 2006 10:51 am |
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Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
 
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As you say, the D3 limits are quite generous! However, if you have a caravan with a more restictive gross limit then that will be the one that will apply. This will be due to the construction & design of the caravan, the C of G when loaded and the brake limits of the caravan.
What is the unladen weight of the caravan?
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| 26th Feb 2006 2:06 pm |
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MGDisco
Member Since: 03 Dec 2005
Location: Stenhosuemuir, Central Scotland
Posts: 41
 
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Shawn
The maximum that you can tow is limited by a number of factors:
1. The towing limit of the vehicle (3500kg in the case of the Disco3) is the maximum trailer weight that can be attached.
2. The gross train weight as indicated on the VIN plate (this is the big number on the plate!)
3. The gross vehicle weight (the next biggest number on the VIN plate) - also shown on the website.
4. Maximum weights on front axle and rear axle (shown as distribution of EEC kerb weight so how can GVW exceed the 2 figures added together?) - as soon as a trailer is hooked up, rear axle loading comes to bear. How you can work out what is actually loaded onto the rear axle from nose weight is probably complex but if you had access to a weigh bridge that independently measured each axle loading, then you would know. But getting there with your caravan fully loaded and finding out you have exceeded the Discos capability is not good!
5. Maximum nose weight - as listed in the handbook - this will probably be limited by your caravans noseweight limit, as the Disco3 from memory is 150kg for normal road use.
So according to the website details:
Gross Train weight is the car and trailer combined, for the Disco3 this is 6730kg irrespective of model
Gross Vehicle weight of the car is 3230kg (again for all models)
Front axle limit(?) is 1296kg for TDV6 man, 1302kg TDV6 auto, 1280kg for V8
Rear axle limit(?) is 1412kg, 1416kg and 1424kg respectively.
Add the figures together for front and rear axle limits gives the following for the three variants: 2708kg, 2718kg and 2704, which is what is listed for the kerb weight so minus extra passengers and luggage, but includes driver and fuel. If I remember from the handbook, it states not to exceed either of the limits for the axles, so look in the handbook to see if there are higher limits and not just the kerb weight distribution as shown on the website if you are concerned about this aspect. It should have limits that will give GVW when added together.
So, what payload can the car take when towing your fully loaded caravan?
From the above weights, the maximimum the car can weigh is 3230kg. Subtract the kerb weight from this and this is the remaining payload you can use (bearing in mind the kerb weight for your specific car is only listed as a range because of basic spec + options). My own Disco3 weighed in at 2740kg (TDV6 auto) on the works weigh bridge with two adults up front and half tank of diesel, so would weigh just short of 2800kg with a full tank. This would allow a further 400kg and still be within the GVW. And keep in mind that the car is designed for 7 people with a full tank!
As your caravan is less than the 3500kg stated, then you can make use of the caravans payload to take some of the equipment you want to keep out of the Disco, but don't overload it or it will be a pig stability wise. Just remember that caravans have a weight when completely empty and total weight - empty being just that, no gas, no sparewheel, nothing in it at all in fact! Most payloads for caravans are only in the range of 150 to 200kg, so really the Disco can carry most of your equipment unless you have used up the space with people!
A bit long winded, but I went through this with work when a couple of accidents happened when people used Defender 110's to tow 3500kg trailers on the open road, piled in equipment and then manged to cowp the unit when driving at 60 MPH - not clever!
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| 26th Feb 2006 2:11 pm |
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shawn
Member Since: 23 Aug 2005
Location: At the top of the hill
Posts: 574
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UNLADEN WEIGHT IS 1459KG i know i can only load the van to 1739 kg fully loaded but is there anything stopping me loading the d3 to the hilt with the heavy stuff so the can is still within its limits.
also if i have a bike rack on the back of the d3 i presume this does not affect the caravan weight
also does anyone know the weight that can be put on the d3 tow bar
cheers shawn bali blue disco 4 with rear dvd's, privacy glass, pre heat system, heated steering wheel, full size spare, piano black trim, ipod cable, 20 inch wheels and i love it loads more than my TDV8 RRS, KTM 250 EXC 2 Stroke for the real off road stuff
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| 26th Feb 2006 2:14 pm |
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THUB
Member Since: 10 Dec 2005
Location: West Berkshire.
Posts: 717
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I have just looked through Practical Caravan Magazine and could not find a van with 1739 kgs as max weight. However the Ace Supreme twin axle does have a max weight of 1737 kgs. Close enough.
The MIRO (mass in running order ) for such this van is 1429 kgs. The user payload is 308 kgs. which give the Max weight of 1737 kgs. If you have a newish caravn on the side usually near the door or on the drawbar will be a plate giving various figures
Ex works weight is now MIRO i.e. Mass in Running Order
Maximum Gross Weight is now MTPLM i.e. Maximum Technically Permissible Laden Mass
Luggage allowance is now User Payload
MTPLM - MIRO = User payload.
You should not exceed the MTPLM under any circumstance. The MTPLM should nod exceed 85% of the vehicle's weight, not a problem with a D3. Noseweight according to plate on my LR towbar is 150kgs. If your bike rack is attached to the tow bar in some manner then I am of the opinion that that load is part of the noseweight i.e. the load bearing down on the towing bracket.
How much you load up the D3 has been explained earlier.
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| 26th Feb 2006 3:58 pm |
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shawn
Member Since: 23 Aug 2005
Location: At the top of the hill
Posts: 574
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 now i am confused, no not really thanks for that guys what i am going to do is load it all up and visit 1 of my customers 2 miles down the road they have one of these weigh bridges that weigh each axle individually.
at least if i am overlaoded its only 2 miles back to home, and at least i won't be off down to france like it
cheers shawn bali blue disco 4 with rear dvd's, privacy glass, pre heat system, heated steering wheel, full size spare, piano black trim, ipod cable, 20 inch wheels and i love it loads more than my TDV8 RRS, KTM 250 EXC 2 Stroke for the real off road stuff
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| 26th Feb 2006 4:08 pm |
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THUB
Member Since: 10 Dec 2005
Location: West Berkshire.
Posts: 717
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When you use the weighbridge do not be surprised if there is a difference between the load on each side. I cannot remember the figure but there is an industry recognised difference that is permissible/acceptable. It is all to do with where the cooker, 'fridge and those other heavy bits and pieces are situated. Don't make the mistake I made when I used a weighbridge. I weighed one side with wheel on the weigh bridge and when I weighed the other side I had the wheel and the jockey wheel on the platform. Rather mucks up the readings. Best to do one side then the other side and then the nosewheel.
I would also suggest that you ask the weighbridge operator to "zero" the weighbridge before you use it.
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| 26th Feb 2006 4:28 pm |
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MGDisco
Member Since: 03 Dec 2005
Location: Stenhosuemuir, Central Scotland
Posts: 41
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From what THUB has said regarding the towbar noseweight limit, I would 100% agree that the bike rack robs you of whatever it weighs from the allowed noseweight. As the noseweight allowance is 150kg, then if the weight of the bike rack plus the bikes weighs 50kg, then you would be able to only have a noseweight of 100kg exerted by the caravan coupling.
The caravan we use is 1700kg max weight, the noseweight limit of the caravan itself is 100kg. It is best to be under by 7% or more to improve stability (but we have had the noseweight upto 95kg so have exceeded this reccommendation with no ill effects on a Disco2). As it is a twin axle, trying to bring nosweight down is extremely hard to achieve due to the two wheels levelling out the load, especially as the gas cylinder and spare wheel sit up front already. I would measure the noseweight of the caravan and then work out what extra weight you can place on the towbar, not the other way(no pun intended!) round, you will just be tearing your hair out if our experience was anyhting to go by. Just about everything ended up behind the axle line, which is not reccommended by any of the Clubs or magazines.
Hopefully you'll get it sorted!
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| 27th Feb 2006 9:58 pm |
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mwestcrew
Member Since: 24 May 2005
Location: Warwickshire
Posts: 334
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Well that's what a forum like this should be about. Really good informed advice and that's what been given in this thread thus far.
My two cents worth....The type of weigbridge described is known as Dynamic weighbridge and is usually used by driving the whole rig across the bridge slowly. The bridge then calculates individual axle weights based on the changes that take plac as the rig passes over the weighbridge. If you can weigh your ccombination like this I would say it was sufficient, as it's the only way any enforcement officer can use to check your loadings.
Nose weight or towball loading is set with regard to the design of the towing attachment not axle loading. On some cars it's alow as 30kg. It really is important to stay within the limit and that probably maens not loading it up with cycle carriers and a caravan.
Cheap way of measuring your caravans noseweight is with the bathroom scales and a piece of 2by2. Cut the 2x2 to the height of your towhitch less the thickness of the scales. Slowly lower the dolly wheel so the scales take the weight via the piece of 2by2. You can trim noseweight on a twin axle rig by moving stored kit to the rear. Twin axles have big overhangs and this makes a considerable difference.
Do not be tempted to make the noseweight really low to compensate for loads in the towing vehicle as this affects stability more than too much weight. With my twin axle that has a MTPLM of 1760kgs (so very similar) I aim for a noseweight of 75kgs. My caravan is usually very close if not slightly to the MTPLM and on the back of a D3 it's completely stable.
Hope that helps... 2011 D4 Landmark, Mini Cooper SD Clubman, Range Rover Vogue SE
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| 28th Feb 2006 9:19 am |
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THUB
Member Since: 10 Dec 2005
Location: West Berkshire.
Posts: 717
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I have to disagree (only slightly) with mwestcrew's comment about enforcement officers. I have been requested to have my outfit weighed on a portable weighbridge carried by some enforcement officers and some police vehicles. I understand that it is not unknown for a police force to set up shop in a motorway service station and check all trailers, not commercials, but those behind private cars. On one occasion the local caravan dealer and Thames Valley police had an open week end when you could have your caravan and car checked over and put on to the mobile weighbridge. The weighbridge weighs each wheel separately but I imagine the accuracy is somewhat "iffy". It certainly was in respect of the nose weight on my van.
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| 28th Feb 2006 10:45 am |
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Gareth
Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26699
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I got checked at Strensham services on the M5 a few years ago. It was more to do with lights and mechanical integrity such as brakes and so on. They had a look in the van to check on weight distribution.
The only thing they told me to change was to fit a separete lashing point for the breakaway cable - I had it wrapped around the tow ball.
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| 28th Feb 2006 10:58 am |
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al cope
Member Since: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Oldbury, WM
Posts: 10296
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I agree with most of the posts, and to give you an idea, a mountain bike typicaly weighs about 15kg, so 4 of these plus the bike rack itself is going to take 70kg off the 150kg ball weight allowed, so you're down to 80kg caravan noseweight. The Disco 2 had a 250kg noseweight, so 150kg on Disco 3 is a touch disappointing.
But getting noseweight right can make a big difference to stability. My old Swift conqueror had its spare wheel in the bottle locker, and with that and the facility for 2 x 7KG gas bottles, plus battery, with nothing else in the van, I could never get it below 95kg noseweight. In the end, I purchased an underslung sparewheel carrier to relocate the spare wheel. My new Abbey Spectrum 620 has the spare underneath as standard.
Al Volvo XC90 B5 Plus Dark
Gone - MY18 D5 HSE - Corris on 22's with Black Pack
Now gone - MY16 D4 SE Tech, Loire Blue, Almond Leather, Privacy, plus some other goodies.
Old - MY12 D4 SDV6 XS Auto - Ipanema Sand with Almond Leather - Plus other niceties, and D4.com sticker
Older - D3 TDV6 XS Auto - Lugano Teal with Almond Leather, 20" Stormers, Shiny Tailpipes, DVD/TV - and obligatory D3 sticker
Ancient - D3 TDV6 S - Tonga with Ebony, 20" Stormers, satnav & DVD
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| 28th Feb 2006 7:32 pm |
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Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
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I thought all LR product bar Freelander were 150Kg? Alko has a new jockey wheel being launched that measures nose weight which looks quite good. I have to say I'm a bit naughty at not checking weights, we travel quite light as we only usually go a few days at a time and I am very careful about loading distribution so I am sure we don't over load. We will be cutting down with weight as the new van has these alko wheel locks. They looked good at the show, but I'm not so sure now as it seems you have to jack the van up to lock the second axle  Luckily I keep a trolley jack in the car. Has anyone had any experience of these yet? DS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
DS3 TDV6 HSE- Silver with Alpaca (new one) Gone
D4 HSE Lux - Montalcino Red Gone
Porsche Cayenne V8 Diesel S
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| 28th Feb 2006 9:24 pm |
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Bernie
Member Since: 22 Sep 2005
Location: North Yorks
Posts: 107
 
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Al, Pelyma is correct. All Disco models since launch have had 150kg limit. Most Caravans also have a 100kg limit.
Cheers Bernie
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| 28th Feb 2006 9:51 pm |
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al cope
Member Since: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Oldbury, WM
Posts: 10296
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I disagree. Page 271 of Disco 2 owners manual definately says 250Kg.
Al Volvo XC90 B5 Plus Dark
Gone - MY18 D5 HSE - Corris on 22's with Black Pack
Now gone - MY16 D4 SE Tech, Loire Blue, Almond Leather, Privacy, plus some other goodies.
Old - MY12 D4 SDV6 XS Auto - Ipanema Sand with Almond Leather - Plus other niceties, and D4.com sticker
Older - D3 TDV6 XS Auto - Lugano Teal with Almond Leather, 20" Stormers, Shiny Tailpipes, DVD/TV - and obligatory D3 sticker
Ancient - D3 TDV6 S - Tonga with Ebony, 20" Stormers, satnav & DVD
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| 28th Feb 2006 10:09 pm |
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