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lr1
Member Since: 09 Nov 2005
Location: Crash and Burn
Posts: 156
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I can understand why individuals are annoyed at their expensive purchase developing many, in some cases, serious faults, and why they might feel the need to dedicate a web site to it.
Landrovers reputation for poor quality control is well documented, and there is no excuse for it. My experience of land rover is poor compared to other vehicles which either myself or immediate family have owned.
eg. 2005 Discovery 3 New compressor, seat frame replaced, park brake warning lights due to poor electrical connections, fume smell in cabin (to be investigated).
Previous 2001 Freelander. Total of Eight faults in 3 years including; requiring engine to be replaced.
other cars owned,
2004 Ford Maverick (wifes car) 1 fault alternator bearing failed.
2001 Vauxhaul Zarifa (wifes car no faults 3 years ownership)
1999 Renault Scenic no faults in 3 years ownership
1998 Renault Scenic (wifes car no faults in 3 years ownership)
1988 Porsche 924s no faults in 3 years of ownership
2002 Toyota Yaris, Sons car no faults (over 3 years of ownership)
2002 Ford Ka, Daughters car, no faults over 2 years of ownership
2 previous xr3i's no faults over 3 years of ownership
3 previous ford escorts (wifes cars) no faults over 3 years of ownership
1991 Porsche 944S2, which I still own (1 temp sensor and 1 throttle sensor both replaced 2005) I have owned the car from 1992.
(Going way back (1971) my British Leyland Morris Marina 1.3 had less faults!)
More faults in my landrovers than all other cars that my family have owned, put together, this speaks for itself. There really is no excuse for poor landrover reliability after all they have been designing and building cars for a very long time!
Will I buy another Landrover, No.
David
Last edited by lr1 on 20th Jan 2006 1:36 pm. Edited 3 times in total
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 20th Jan 2006 1:02 pm |
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LRtuning
Member Since: 22 Feb 2005
Location: AUSTRALIA + UK
Posts: 468
 
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Ultimately I think the parent company 'FORD' is to blame.
Their PR/Marketing department has done a slick job in promoting the new Disco3/RR sport but failed to have in place either the quality control or customer services support to fulfill the customers' expectations.
This 'fur coat, no knickers' approach now has to stop and FORD...sorry...I mean LR need to improve product standards and the support to go with it. Money talks.Sex sells.Mud sticks.Time flys.  happens.People talk.Impressions last!
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| 20th Jan 2006 1:18 pm |
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Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
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I think we all agree that many cars out there do have issues, unfortunatley we hear little of those that don't.
I am sure that the worst thing in the world to do is to make things aggressive and personal. As soon as you start slinging mud you've lost the battle. The only way these issues will be ultimatley sorted it to work with LR, not against it. Yes I fully sympathise with those that have had problem after problem when previous German models have had no issues.
But we all have to face facts all manufactuers have issues, a mate has rejected 2 Lexus saloons and an Audi A6, yet these are 2 manufactuers that would be regarded as cast iron quality. However with all these marques there is no soul, buy your Landcruiser it'll be a good car but it will never be great.
LR do however need to wake up and engage with owners and in particular it would seem from owners experiences, although I have had none, improve their customer service department. Ford have managed to drag Jaguar to the point where in the US they got top slot in the JD Power survey. Wouldn't it be marvellous if LR could do that here? But saying LR are a load of crap I'd never buy one again and I'm going to tell the world about it isn't the way forward. DS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
DS3 TDV6 HSE- Silver with Alpaca (new one) Gone
D4 HSE Lux - Montalcino Red Gone
Porsche Cayenne V8 Diesel S
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| 20th Jan 2006 1:40 pm |
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LRtuning
Member Since: 22 Feb 2005
Location: AUSTRALIA + UK
Posts: 468
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Well said  Money talks.Sex sells.Mud sticks.Time flys. happens.People talk.Impressions last!
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| 20th Jan 2006 1:44 pm |
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lr1
Member Since: 09 Nov 2005
Location: Crash and Burn
Posts: 156
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" LR do however need to wake up and engage with owners and in particular it would seem from owners experiences..............But saying LR are a load of crap I'd never buy one again and I'm going to tell the world about it isn't the way forward."
Some might argue that it is the way forward in order to make LR 'wake up', (they are probably in a comma rather than asleep, (the 1.8 Freelander reliabily fiaso should have made alarm bells ring)
How exactly would you propose to wakeup LR, are there alternatives?
D.
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| 20th Jan 2006 1:51 pm |
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Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
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Yes, but by taking an attitude of your product is a load of rubbish with them will cause it to fail. Turn it on its head and imagine you make a product and someone says to you what a load of rubbish this is wrong with it thats wrong with it etc and I'm never going to buy another one again. What benefit to you is there in even listening to you?
I know if I were dealt with like that I'd say why should I listen to this guy, I've got no future profit from him and if I try to engage with him he is likley to be rude and abusive - I won't bother. And that is the crux of the matter.
Your dealer does not want to sell you a car that is a problem and LR does not want to make a car that is a problem - all this hits the one thing companies do care about PROFIT. I find that careful thought out responses that are not rants but genuine calls for help get a far better response. If you're drowning do say resue me or I'll kick your head in? Dealing with quality issues are no different pleasantness wins over nastyness. But its only my opinion. DS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
DS3 TDV6 HSE- Silver with Alpaca (new one) Gone
D4 HSE Lux - Montalcino Red Gone
Porsche Cayenne V8 Diesel S
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| 20th Jan 2006 2:08 pm |
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lr1
Member Since: 09 Nov 2005
Location: Crash and Burn
Posts: 156
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I note for your previous posts you have had no issues with your particular car, however you might think differently if you had serious issues like many others.
If next week your car experinces mulitiple problems, eg compressor failure, turbo failure, engine management warnings, I would suggest your views might be different.
You state "Turn it on its head and imagine you make a product and someone says to you what a load of rubbish this is wrong with it thats wrong with it etc and I'm never going to buy another one again. What benefit to you is there in even listening to you? "
If something is rubbish and you list exactly what is wrong with it, this is important information. If a manufacturer ignores such information, market forces dictate that it is probable they will loose sales and have to go out of business or improve the product.
"Dealing with quality issues are no different pleasantness wins over nastyness. "
You are not in the real world! Are you telling me you have never had to go back to a shop and get into a heated argument to get proper service/refund etc. from a obstinate sales person/manager?
D.
PS. On the subject of your bad example of 'Drowning'. If someone is drowning do not immediately jump in to save them as they are likely to grab on to you and drown you as well. Best leave them until they are exhaused and then make the rescue attempt (My humble advice as a SCUBA diving instructor.) Your analogy is simply inappropraite.
Last edited by lr1 on 20th Jan 2006 2:39 pm. Edited 3 times in total
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| 20th Jan 2006 2:23 pm |
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Baybers
Member Since: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 16
 
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putting "clives" personal issues aside, I think that his blog is the best way to force landrover to address their quality issues.
If you have a prob with your car on repeated occasions then you can complain to the dealer, or to LR or get a replacement poorly built car, or you can cause LR to start losing sales and force them to address quality.
If ten people went to clive's site and didn't by a LR3 then that is $ 1 million dollars in direct sales that LR have lost, and I'm sure that the site has caused more people to switch their buying preferences then just 10.
Clive has done more for LR's quality then 10 LR enthusiasts willing to excuse the most ridiculous errors; purely by putting the blowtorch to LR collective international sales in the public domain.
the alternative view is that one should be nice to someone who has sold you a shoddy car is, to say the least an interesting notion, much like giving taxpayers dollars to a car company to still build crap cars.
And as for an existential attachment to a car beyond the mere objective facts of its purchase, I suggest those folks stick to a mainstream religion.
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| 20th Jan 2006 2:33 pm |
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lr1
Member Since: 09 Nov 2005
Location: Crash and Burn
Posts: 156
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Someone from the real world
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| 20th Jan 2006 2:36 pm |
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Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
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lr1 wrote:Someone from the real world
I bow to your greater knowledge of life
BTW my car has had 2 replacement compressors in 12 months of ownership. But I'll go and live in my own little world DS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
DS3 TDV6 HSE- Silver with Alpaca (new one) Gone
D4 HSE Lux - Montalcino Red Gone
Porsche Cayenne V8 Diesel S
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| 20th Jan 2006 3:02 pm |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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turbochip wrote:Ultimately I think the parent company 'FORD' is to blame.
Their PR/Marketing department has done a slick job in promoting the new Disco3/RR sport but failed to have in place either the quality control or customer services support to fulfill the customers' expectations.
This 'fur coat, no knickers' approach now has to stop and FORD...sorry...I mean LR need to improve product standards and the support to go with it.
Which is what I have said some time ago in my open letters on this forum:
http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=24878#24878
http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1717
The letters follow my first 6 months with the car and now the rejection of the second. However I still think the beast is formidable and there is not another to equal it.
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| 20th Jan 2006 3:13 pm |
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Winger
Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
 
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lr1 wrote:You are not in the real world!
Whilst the faults that you have experienced are clearly regrettable, and should not occur in a vehicle of this type, I would point out to you that in the "real world" you refer to, many thousands of Disco 3s have been made and delivered to customers who have had no problems whatsoever, and are 100% happy with them
It is unfortunate that you have had problems with your vehicle, but you (along with the others who post on this forum who have had problems) are in the minority. Although that provides little comfort to those affected, the product is clearly not "rubbish" and trying to suggest to Land Rover that the vehicle is would not, in my view, be the best way to get the best response from them, or your dealer.
Finally, my experience is that you get a lot more when dealing with a problem by keeping a cool head; heated exchanges are not as productive.
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| 20th Jan 2006 3:42 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23367
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If you were working for a large co. such as L/R(Ford). Who would you give the best possible service to, someone ranting & raging at you, or someone communicating in a polite & calm manner pointing out that they appreciate that the problem is not personally your fault?
From daily experience in trying to rectify mistakes made by large U.K insurance co.s, I can vouch for the later approach.
I do sympathise with anyone having fisted out a large amount of £'s for a vehicle that is riddled with faults, must be so frustrating.
Just have to keep my fingers crossed that I get "a good 'un"!
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| 20th Jan 2006 4:10 pm |
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Cliff H
Member Since: 27 Oct 2005
Location: Home of the Pork pie and Stilton
Posts: 1304
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I am all for the calm and polite way.
But
Today I found out that my dealer principle has probably been lying to me for the last 3 weeks re saying that he has applied for an exchange of my car to LR. 
LR have no correspondence from them at all re my car.
What should I do now, smile and say "oh it doesn't matter" Zermatt silver 06 reg.
Gone but not forgotten !!!
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| 20th Jan 2006 4:21 pm |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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The latest models certainly appear to be a lot better in quality control. I am convinced that some of the earlier problems were to be attributed to LR 'rushing' through the orders to satisfy demand and on such a sophisticated vehicle it is bound to cause a few problems.
I have reviewed almost all of the supposed contenders now and I have to say, nothing comes up to the D3 hub caps. My review of the VW Toureg
http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2644
was as near to the D3 as I could get, but well I never, I found a web forum and they also have some electronic problems.
I have even looked at the Nissan Pathfinder T range and yes it has all the goodies and is even reviewed as being one of the most reliable. However, when I dug into its offroad status I was shocked to find it can only wade upto 450mm against the D3's 700mm.
I did find one very big difference however with the sales staff, they all admitted, that they knew nothing about off roading and that they were selling the majority to people for carrying children and goods around in where LR sales staff 'appear' to know it all unless you ask them some good old questions about break over points and failed river crossing restarts.
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| 20th Jan 2006 4:36 pm |
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