Member Since: 14 Jul 2012
Location: surrey
Posts: 109
3.0 runs, but not very well.....advice needed
Guys, got an odd one here.
Bought an 11 plate d4 off a guy as a non runner. Been standing a year and persons unknown been at it.
The story is that he bought it, it went kaboom, the seller put a recon engine in with new turbos and "an egr" and he then did 30k miles in it. Wouldnt start one day from cold, he sent it somewhere, they had to throw a load of fuel in so they could test it. Charged him 4 hrs diag to conclude "think it has an internal timing fault suspect new engine required". For clarity, I've seen the recon engine invoice, way too cheap, and he said the garage who diag'd it pretty much CBA with it or him (prob as there was no fuel in it when sent to them?!?!?). I have a copy of their invoice too.
Its all a bit sad with suspension fault, epb fault, audio visual not working, and the front end in the boot (still not sure why that is). So I plopped a battery on, got it to go pretty much first try, but it would't rev. No real throttle response. Had a huge coolant leak. EPB easily sortable, suspension fault is an IDK at this point as no suspension buttons lit up at all and shes flat on her bum. When reconnecting the battery you can hear the compressor exhaust valve click.
Have resolved coolant leak with new water outlet in the vee, did the intake o rings etc. Fired up, watertight, same issue, wouldnt rev, idles like a bag of hammers. Cleaned the minging MAP sensor, messed around swapping/disconnecting mafs etc, managed to get it to rev and it sounds quite sweet. Certainly not the seized lump I thought I had bought anyway....
However, we have a restricted performance warning, shes as smoky as hell when warm, including what seems like some underbonnet smoke (if pushed I would say grey in colour). Smells really fuelly so I'm fairly certain she's overfuelling massively. Can't see any signs of a split manifold - and we did spray some brake cleaner around to see if the revs picked up. Then decided to go old school and do a leak off test as, thinking if shes pulled some tank crap through, could be a stuck injector. Leak off test was very consistent across all 6.
The only recurring code on GAP is P00AA-17. Intake air temp sensor 1 bank 2 circuit above threshold.
The mostly-won't-rev thing is weird. When its "not working" you can still see pedal movement on GAP live data, so I kinda ruled out a faulty pedal. Equally, the underbonnet smoke is odd too, I wonder about a crossover pipe perhaps - my pal initially thought it was burnoff from the post-coolant leak - but on one of the few occasions i could get her to rev it seemed fairly clear it was exhaust type smoke.
It has the potential to be quite a nice car but obv quite keen not to fire the parts cannon at it either......Equally, I don't want to condemn what sounds like (sometimes!!!) a sweet engine....albeit I'm yet to hear her idle nicely, she doesn't. I've not diag'd anything like this issue before. Any pointers where to start, how to narrow down? Love my d4 to bits, kinda want it back from the Mrs and give her this one!!!
Thanks.
John
13th Feb 2024 9:14 pm
itsaguything
Member Since: 20 Dec 2023
Location: Manotick, On
Posts: 146
subscribed.
These situations interest me. And I like you are not a musical parts guy.
But the lack of codes do not help.
Firstly, lets deal with the smoke under the bonnet. That will go right into the cabin. Exhaust smoke? Burning electrics?
Then, lets deal with this poor running. Codes would be helpful. “Suspect timing”?? We have to do better than that. But do recognize that many who replace timing chains really have no clue what they are doing and the source of their mechanical education is a youtube video. AKA: monkey see, monkey do.2015 LR4 HSE Lux Aintree Green
2013 LR2 HSE Radiance Red
2007 XKR Jaguar Racing Green
2005 XJR Jaguar Racing Green
2002 S-Type R British Racing Green
22nd Feb 2024 1:58 pm
jonnyboy54321
Member Since: 14 Jul 2012
Location: surrey
Posts: 109
By way of update, here we are. Two known good mafs, no difference. Damaged two clips to spill pipes when doing leak off test, thought i had a set on way, been let down, dont want to pay main dealer price so ebay specials ordered, fuel all over the place (wasnt previously so thats not the smoke). Awful noise at rear for about ten seconds with ignition on, initially thought was suspension compressor till I noticed it had been nicked (now replaced with a s/h one). Wondered if it was LPFP. Fuel level seemed real low so plopped in 20ltrs. Now just get the awful loud buzz/vibrate at rear for two seconds with ignition on, and permanently when she runs although she will only curently run for about 15 seconds whether mafs connected/disconnected, and of course have fuel spilling everywhere. Really wondering if the noise is the LPFP, and this could be the start of the issues.....there is fuel present at the Schrader valve but I need ot get a pressure gauge. Annoyingly can't get her to raise up with the air suspension compressor I've fited cos she won't run for long enough! Seems like one step forwards and nine back, she also needs a new battery as this one is goosed which is never helpful, she will get the one off my wife's d4 and that can have a new one......
22nd Feb 2024 9:51 pm
jonnyboy54321
Member Since: 14 Jul 2012
Location: surrey
Posts: 109
Further update. Fuel filter changed for a new Parkers one. Thought I had a faulty lift pump as weird noise which turned out to be lower tailgate c/locking solenoid (dont laugh!!! knackered battery wasnt helping me fault find, have replaced with a new Bosch one now). Finally got some leak off pipes and fitted. Suspension compressor fitted and working. The number of dash error messages is lessening (!!!!!) and now i have a DPF full warning, still ticks over poorly and doesn't want to rev whether mafs are plugged in or not. Getting the same code as i was about intake air temp but 100% not a faulty maf as using a different pair known good
27th Feb 2024 7:16 pm
Jimbob42
Member Since: 23 Mar 2022
Location: Leicester
Posts: 134
I’d suggest checking right side cam pulley. Seen several now and the symptoms match. Can you see the cam turning through the oil filler and engine running.
Click image to enlarge
27th Feb 2024 7:46 pm
jonnyboy54321
Member Since: 14 Jul 2012
Location: surrey
Posts: 109
thats interesting - I didn't think that happened on the 3.0's, only thought it was a think on the 2.7's...Will check!
27th Feb 2024 8:14 pm
Jimbob42
Member Since: 23 Mar 2022
Location: Leicester
Posts: 134
Nope, 2 3 litres and 2 2.7s. Start up and idle barely but zero throttle response and fuel smell from exhaust. Well worth ruling it out. I’m currently rebuilding a head as it had bent 4 inlet and 2 exhaust. Last one bent none and ran fine with a new pulley. The cam chains are also prone to failing, had s few of those as well. Similar symptoms again but need s bit more stripping to diagnose sadly.
27th Feb 2024 10:01 pm
James3LDR
Member Since: 28 Jun 2016
Location: Bath
Posts: 30
Everything crossed for you jonnyboy54321
Following with interestMY12 D4 HSE
28th Feb 2024 12:43 am
jonnyboy54321
Member Since: 14 Jul 2012
Location: surrey
Posts: 109
So I had a look through the oil filler cap, can see the offside bank inlet cam, just, managed to put a sharpie mark on it and turned the crank pulley - it turned, ergo the rear chain on that bank is intact (could have jumped of course). Then stripped off the front timing cover - belt is intact and so are the two exhaust cam pulleys. Not checked the timing as yet. Can't rule out a rear chain jump on either bank, and cant definitively say the inlet cam on nearside bank is turning. I suppose next job would be the inlet manifolds off to see if all four cams are intact and turning.
This is a car where the back story is vague and persons unknown have been there before me. Shame to break it but there's only so much time/money you can flog on a dead horse which is in my mind.
There is still the DPF full scenario warning - I've not had anything to do with DPF's previously. I suppose a total blockage could cause her to not want to rev and not idle nicely/be down on power, not convinced that would account for smoke/overfuelling though.
Still have the intake air temp fault coming up despite the MAF's being changed for known good.
She does breath hard quite chuffy, when she ticks over, through the filler cap. Hard to know what's normal there as my wife's d4 has a 20k mile crated engine in there so hardly a similar one to benchmark.
Would do a compression test if this was a petrol but I guess on a diesel the only place I could do that would be glow plug holes and that will inevitably be a world of pain!
28th Feb 2024 7:07 pm
Jimbob42
Member Since: 23 Mar 2022
Location: Leicester
Posts: 134
Normally something causes the dpf to block, I have seen them melt with excessive fuel. I suspect something more sinister is afoot.
28th Feb 2024 7:23 pm
jonnyboy54321
Member Since: 14 Jul 2012
Location: surrey
Posts: 109
Yeah. We smelled brake cleaner from the exhaust (or what we think is), possibly someone has been playing squirty squirty down the inlet......
Lack of codes is not helpful of course
28th Feb 2024 7:28 pm
jonnyboy54321
Member Since: 14 Jul 2012
Location: surrey
Posts: 109
Took starter motor out, pinned the engine up to check the timing, it's spot-on. Don't know, of course, whether the inlet cams are times up correctly on the rear chains without taking off the inlet manifolds. However, my pal reckons he saw a lot of oil around the nearside turbo. I will continue his work tomorrow and take that side intake pipework off to inspect the turbo as he thinks it doesnt look 25k miles old........but the offside one looks like it could be.....
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