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Engine out Body on Procedures
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BrettKaz
 


Member Since: 11 Nov 2013
Location: Canberra
Posts: 209

Australia 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3
Engine out Body on Procedures

I am in awe of the jobs that some of the forum contributors tackle and the amount of knowledge they have. When my mechanic said I needed to take out the engine but couldn’t tie one of his lifts I had no choice but to give it a go. Yes I know we could have taken the body off, engine out and body back on in half the time.
I haven’t done any mechanical work since the 80’s so I am a total novice. I read thru Flyboy47’s post on how to do this and I was still unsure on how to actually remove all the stuff he had removed.
There was a lot of staring at the car and swearing … and once while under the car, when nobody was looking, I had a little cry.
I have been a bit of a sponge on this site so I am pleased to actually make a contribution for a change. I’m sure that if you can be bothered reading these procedures I am sure I have done some things in a ‘cack handed’ and naive manner – but the engine is out. Again these procedures have been written with a total novice in mind. I note timescales as I remember them – none of them are intended to be macho – It actually took much longer than noted below – simply as I say – there was a lot of staring at the car wondering where to go next.

Happy for people to correct and improve these.

Tools
½” and ¼” sockets
- Multi-(ball) joint (as opposed to a uni-joint) 2x ½” (to be used occasionally ganged) and ¼ “ (these are a similar principle to the ball end of a hex key)
- ½” to ¼” converter
- 3ft ½” extension bar plus assortment of other sizes
- ½” breaker bar
Spanners (ratchet are handy)
Fan Spanner 32mm (can also remove oil filter with additional adjustable spanner overlaid on different axis ... not recommended but in a pinch)
Torx and inverse torx into ¼” socket
2x jack stands (rated 750kg+) and trolly jack
Cordless Impact Driver (1/2”) 200nm+ torque
14mm single (6 point) ½” hex socket – to remove exhaust bolts without stripping (most socket sets are multi-hex meaning they can be put on a hex bolt/nut 12 or (I think even) 18 times thru one rotation of the socket (12/18 point) – single hex can be only put on 6 times and completely contacts all surfaces of a hexagonal nut/bolt)
Coal chisel
Chocks
Plastic sandwich bags and indelible pen marker for the homes of the different nuts and bolts and tape to attach bag to part.

Prep
Handbrake off (you will want to transport your car to a garage/2 post lift to take the body off to put all this %$#& back in)
Warning: if you can’t get all the exhaust crossover bolts back in this will weaken this oddly engineered piece to failure requiring inter-alia removing gearbox to replace (and apparently many many swear words)
Open rear upper tailgate and unlock doors For access once electrics are disconnected. Place rag in/on tailgate latch to stop it engaging. Open rear lower door in case of body off - put rags in latches to make safe.
Use chocks on flat surface
Don’t get under a car supported only by a jack

Under Engine Bay (1 hour)
Support front on jack stands (jack stand points (not marked) are just as the chassis rails narrow)
Remove belly pans
Detach oil sensor (pinch top and lever gently w/ large flat blade screwdriver)
Drain oil
Remove engine sump
Remove oil pick-up pipe (wear condom over head/face)


Under Gearbox (2 hours)

Front prop shaft (transfer case to front diff) off (no need to remove rear prop shaft). Propshaft cannot be finally removed without removing exhaust (front section) first.
Leave the car in ‘Park’ and and after removing accessible inverse torx bolts move to neutral rotate shaft and then in park again (so you can access/remove all the bolts without the shaft rotating)
The propshaft is a what I am going to describe (probably incorrectly) as a ‘clamshell fitting’. There are grease retainers at either end which have nothing to do with the retention of the join. You need to smack the steel at either end join mid-point (barely visible) from below with a hammer and quite sharp coal chisel to ‘break’ the join at both ends… compress and remove after exhaust front section is detached.
Consider if you are happy to leave the car in neutral for the rest of the job (we did) … you will probably conclude that you will hire a 2 post lift for a day or 2 to take the body off and reinstall the engine that way… unless you are certifiably ‘nuts’. Not sure if it is simple matter to get the car out of park (or handbrake off) after all the electrics are disconnected. Remember you need to have your foot on the brake to move b/w park and neutral (so this solenoid would also need to be ‘live’).


Engine Bay (4 hours)
Bonnet – remove gas strut retainers, dislodge struts and lift 90 degrees and engage maintenance retainers at mount
Where the bonnet struts attach to the body there is a hole that runs right down through the mudguard panel. Anything dropped down there is irretrievable so tape it up NOW. Tape little strut retainers to this so you don't lose them.
Fan off
Grill off - look under the grill horizontal slats - there are 2x plastic flanges - flex these and pull grill gently out

Radiator out (undo bottom mounts and lift-up through top mounts and then under and out)
Disconnect fuel lines
Disconnect all pipes/hoses from radiator/intercooler
Pass side - Remove battery and half tray (3 bolts)
(leave as many pipes/hoses as possible attached trying to figure out which way each pipe/hose attaches and sits may be difficult)
Drivers side – remove air box and half tray
Remove plastic wheel arch liner (see below for procedure) Note my brother did this bit and I’m not sure if he concluded he needed to in the end – see how you go.
Disconnect lower and upper steering UJ bolts (inverse torx) remove – belt with hammer & coal chisel from underneath. JLR recommend to use new bolts to refit – they seem to recommend this on just about everything although not sure I am game to try to prove them wrong here.

In case of low height engine crane – we didn’t do this (1 hour)
Lights out (lift long retainers vertically 2x each light - only about 1cm - not too far)
Front slam panel
Remember you can lower the car to the discs if you take off the front wheels
(you might want to wait until the engine is half out to make this decision)
Access to lower radiator mount bolts is more difficult with this left on.


Under Gearbox (3 hours)
Undo intermediate crossmember (remove 4x bolts at sides - leave cross-member insitu w/gearbox) and support (jack) gearbox/crossmember then lower as far as possible. (the engine flexs on it’s mounts – and the rear prop shaft is uni-jointed/can flex)
Remove exhaust bolts x3 (13mm single hex socket) and turbo bracket to bell housing. Think only 1 heat shield needs to be removed for access. Remove from one rubber mount and work front section of exhaust loose (can be left insitu and moved around recess for access to bell housing bolts, finally remove front prop shaft)


Bell housing and exhaust x-over mounts (4-8 hours 2x people)
Remove exhaust crossover mounts 2 x 10mm each side plus 2x10mm at the top of housing. Top bolts can be reached (apparently with fixed head ratchet spanner – the flexible head version of this spanner makes it difficult to push on bolt at reach) otherwise via 3ft extension from behind the (now lowered) gearbox/transfer case.
Remove all bell housing bolts – 4x top ones with 3ft extension from behind gearbox (no uni or multi joint- better ‘feel’ – 2x person job). Upper side ones with 2x multi joint or combined multi plus uni joints.
Bell housing must be completely free of any bolts (including turbo bracket)
Jack transmission and cross-member back into place and insert at least one bolt and nut either side.

Access to passenger side engine mount bolt (3 hours)
Remove wheel-arch plastic liner (for the 2 part plastic fixings remover inner part of the fixing with a sharp flat screwdriver and then remove outer sheath with same) Loosen wheel arch external plastic moulding to remove
Remove heat shielding in wheel arch 2x (just behind centre of front wheel)
May need to remove brake line and sensor wires from bracket for better access
Disconnect steel power steering pipe from engine (if you don’t do this you can’t access the turbo hose bolt – per JLR don’t bend it to gain access (flow restriction) – you won’t get this hose out without the steel turbo hose and PAS pump coming out simultaneously)
Remove Power steering pump (5x bolts – 3x front and 2x side from under wheel arch)
Remove steel turbo hose (1x clamp at small turbo hose - under wheel arch – 1x bolt to engine accessed thru wheel arch) pull forward to remove
Note: you can be pretty comfortable just to remove any bolt you can see from inside the wheel arch … err … and some you can’t!
Note: other than the replacing the exhaust crossover and top bell housing bolts this is the other job I can’t imagine repeating properly in reverse

Removing engine from Gearbox at torque converter (2 hours)
Remove Starter for access
Reposition fuel cooler (pull it off the mount and detach 2x pipes to engine)
Detach positive (red) lead (set aside -insitu)
2x bolts at front of starter (accessed rear of housing)
2x side bolts
Wiggle starter out
When clear and nearly out remove black negative lead
Detach engine from torque converter
Use breaker bar and rotate crank until bolt appears through starter head (smaller) recess
Use 2ft/3ft extension from front engine bay (now clear) 4x torque converter bolts (impact driver works well here)

Remove Engine Mount Nuts
Use 2’ extension straight down from top.



Attaching engine crane
My engine crane was long reach/high lift and did not need to remove/detach front slam panel (I also have a bull bar which I did not need to detach). FYI it was 250kg max at that reach – I guess we pushed the envelope of it’s engineering. Throughout the ‘ordeal’ the only bolt (torx) that was seized was on this slam panel so luckily did not need to remove. I detached the engine at the torque converter so forward (engine) clearance was not a problem. One forum member made a bracket to keep the engine as close as possible to the crane. Consider lowering the car by taking off the front wheels and lowering to disc height.

The engine lift lugs are pretty obvious top front right and top back left (tight). The back engine lift bracket bolt is a #$%& 10mm if you want to put on another bracket.



While lifting/removing engine
See my post below re removal of LHS engine mount and turbo
Clear the gearbox wiring loom which runs under the oil breather (detach) and then under the exhaust crossover pipe at back of engine
Clear gearbox breather pipes (which run over the top of the engine, also inside the exhaust crossover and then along the top of the gearbox) just pull the steel out of their mating plastic pipes (on the very top of gear box) while the engine is being pulled out (they may need some caressing to avoid bending pipes)
Clear electrical/sensor loom running across front/lower engine (2bolts, snip 3x zip ties)
Driver side front: Release the engine ground cable from the chassis.
Finally detach power steering unit
Engine can snag on brake lines under engine on front crossmember – can’t see them from underneath

Beer (6 hours)
Open beer and drink (repeat 23 times)

Body off with Engine Out to Reinstall Engine
Having reviewed the body off procedures – It’s not much work to take the body off to put the engine back in.
 

Last edited by BrettKaz on 10th Jun 2017 3:57 am. Edited 5 times in total 
Post #179772730th Mar 2017 12:35 pm
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BrettKaz
 


Member Since: 11 Nov 2013
Location: Canberra
Posts: 209

Australia 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3

I saw somebody had contacted Flyboy47 to see how he got on got reinstalling the engine with the body on. I suspect he is in the Priory - Landrover Wing - Ward B - Owners who have tried to reinstall the engine with the body on. It's right next to Ward A for Owners and mechanics with large hands. We wish him well.

Whilst I took the body off to reinstall the engine it occurred to me that simply reinstalling with the body on with these procedures (above) in reverse probably won't work.

Since writing this up I got a copy of the workshop manual and under the section Engine 2.7 are details (to my surprise) of how to remove and install the engine with the body on. I thought I had bookmarked it but I you want a copy you have to search thru posts on it ... the version I have has a few 2.7 pieces missing - I forget which but 95% is in there.

The major difference with above is that the manual says to remove the turbo (I had assumed - it doesn't say why) to access the LHS engine mount rather than above where the Turbo & PSteering hoses and PS pump are removed. I thought that was an either/or and down to preference. However having reinstalled the engine with body off I think the turbo has to be removed (rather than PS etc) before you can re position the engine to fit.

When we pulled out the engine we did it with brute force - tied the ute up to the crane and dumped the clutch (not quite). When we re installed it we thought we could just put the ute in reverse.... not the case. Had to go back to the manual - broadly (LHS/RHS facing forward):
- remove LHS engine mount bracket from engine
- lift engine and engage RHS engine mount with engine bracket and put a couple of turns on the retaining nut.
- rotate the engine around the RHS engine mount to engage with bell housing and recess in torque converter - like you would shutting a door on its hinge.
- once positioned do up some bolts on the bell housing to retain maybe 10-12 torque short of spec but firm.
- once connected jack the engine crane up so LHS mount bracket to engine when fitted would sit 3-4 cm above mount on chassis. (the engine rotates around its north/south axis)
- fit the mount to engine thru the wheel well access.
- drop engine on LHS mount (this is 10x more difficult than it sounds - 20x with body on)
- remove crane

After all that my point is I think the turbo has to be removed (rather than hoses etc) so that as you 'shut the door' and rotate the engine around the RHS chassis mount the turbo may foul the body. I remember that area being tight when we pulled the engine. So I would choose that route as a safer option. Search my post on 'turbo access mod' w/ thanks to Mikey.

To get the engine to drop onto the LHS mount we did the following (seemingly ridiculous) things:
- make sure the RHS mount bracket is right at the top with only a turn or so on the retaining nut ... also the engine is as far left as possible in the oblong shaped receiver on the bracket mount.
- pushed w/ foot 10cm behind the rubber gearbox mount (near the rear uni) towards the RHS
- pulled the front of engine to the left
- pushed the chassis mount bolt forward with piece of wood.
- 3 x blokes
- I'm sure there is an easier way.

Look forward to further posts to clarify this. Will post at a future date other things to watch for and for general entertainment Censored up's.

Here is the mess created
  
Post #18243668th Jun 2017 11:39 pm
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gstuart
 


Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 10276

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 Base 7 Seat Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

Bow down Bow down Bow down

take my hat off to u for taking a job like this on

a very interesting thread and hope it all goes to plan for u

imagine it will also be a good time to go through everything whilst the body is off

hope i'm not being cheeky in asking , but if u get time , ref a wiring loom , as u look at the compressor by the back wheel side, there is the handbrake cable, then there is a wiring loom that can rub against the chassis , it goes up and over the chassis , trying to describe it better, Laughing

would u be so kind to take some pics of that area plse, not sure if the wiring loom is attached to the compressor silencer pipes , as i found this loom had rubbed against the chassis and worn the outer sleeve, refitted some sleeving but can't see where it goes

many thks and good luck with the project Thumbs Up
  
Post #18243779th Jun 2017 12:09 am
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BrettKaz
 


Member Since: 11 Nov 2013
Location: Canberra
Posts: 209

Australia 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3

Have already put engine in - the good news for you is that engine #2 is already toast in the first five minutes of it's life with me so need to go thru the whole process again - I can photo this area for you then. Might make people who think you don't have to prime the oil pump think again although solidification of sludge in my 2nd hand engine may have occurred prior or during storage. I have one of these on my chrimbo list See rig 6 below

http://www.turnerhydraulicgroup.co.uk/flus...KgodSoULvg

If you don't have a spare 30k some shops have these
http://www.millersgarage.co.uk/edt-engine-treatment/


I will post details in the appropriate thread when my eyes dry out sufficiently... Will also need a keyboard that can take a good thrashing.
  
Post #18243839th Jun 2017 1:34 am
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gstuart
 


Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 10276

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 Base 7 Seat Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

oh bloody hell mate , imagine and quite rightly ur Censored gutted

may i ask where abouts are u plse

bless u ref the pics , feel really bad asking now, considering all the work you've got to now go through


the new toys look good Thumbs Up

will keep an eye out for further updates

good luck buddy and that all goes well Bow down
  
Post #18243849th Jun 2017 1:46 am
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BrettKaz
 


Member Since: 11 Nov 2013
Location: Canberra
Posts: 209

Australia 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3

Moved from London back to Oz - tried to change my D3 profile - not sure it wouldn't allow me or my ADHD got the better of the process... will give it another shot. Down here we have the ford territory which has the 2.7 and is still in production so can get 2-3 year old engines ... no body recons them down here so would need to ship one out - took what I thought was a reasonable gamble.
  
Post #18243859th Jun 2017 1:57 am
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gstuart
 


Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 10276

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 Base 7 Seat Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

thks brett

reason i asked as i would have really enjoyed seeing one with the body off , yeh i know i need to get out more , Laughing

hope u don't have any more problems and soon back on the road Thumbs Up
  
Post #18244669th Jun 2017 9:31 am
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wedgev8
 


Member Since: 17 May 2019
Location: Kerpen
Posts: 151

Germany 2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

To you all....
Here is a video about engine removal with body on.
  
Post #218243525th Oct 2020 11:17 pm
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