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747_JK
Member Since: 03 Apr 2010
Location: Surrey
Posts: 268
  
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| Swarf found in the engine oil... Anyone had this before? |
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So after the dealer had no luck recreating the awful engine noise I experienced and recorded in the sound clip in this thread (http://www.disco4.com/forum/topic94765.html), they drained the engine oil to find it contained swarf (fine particles of metal which shouldn't be there).
My dealer confirmed this is "pretty uncommon to find in engine oil" and it's almost undoubtedly there as a result of something in the engine or an associated component wearing prematurely. That, combined with the noise my engine made, leaves me convinced something is going to go spectacularly wrong with it fairly soon. Otherwise, why the metal particles, and why did the engine sound so dreadful on a journey last week?
As all the other tests the dealers has run say the car is fine, and it drives fine, the dealer and the Land Rover extended warranty rep who visited to see the car can do nothing more.
However, with some long journeys ahead, time will tell whether this ends up being engine number two to fail in the same car. My car has done 54,800 miles, and the first engine was replaced at around 14,000.
I'd be intrigued to know if any other D4 owners have found swarf in their oil, or been told of such an issue by their dealer?
Thanks 747_JK
"Moab is my happy place"
2019 Land Rover Discovery 5 HSE
2015 Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE - SOLD
2010 Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE with a serious smoking habit - SOLD
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 11th May 2013 12:01 am |
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NJSS
Member Since: 06 May 2009
Location: Catherington, Hampshire.
Posts: 10502
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Did Land Rover analyse the oil; and if not I suggest you enquire why not?
Analysis would give a lot of information about your engine, and where the problem might originate.
Aluminum could indicate wear (scuffing) on piston skirts, certain types of bearings, and heat exchangers (oil coolers).
Chromium in oil almost always originates from piston rings.
Iron originates from many components, cylinder liners, camshaft lobes, crankshaft journals, and oil pumps.
Copper is mainly utilized in bushings and bearings such as: crankshaft journal bearings, connecting rod bearings, camshaft bushings, little end bushings, thrust washers, and even heat exchangers.
Lead based alloys are found in main crankshaft journal bearings.
Tin commonly alloyed with Copper and Lead, it is typically found in crankshaft journal, connecting rod, and camshaft bearings, along with heat exchanger cores and thrust washers.
If you have a sample of oil you might consider getting it analysed at your own expense. I am sure someone will come along & recommend a good laboratory.
NJSS Am I Gammon or Woke ? - I neither know nor care.
2016 Discovery 4 Landmark
2011 Mercedes Benz SL350 (R230)
1973 MG B GT V8 - 3.9L John Eales engine, 5 speed R380 gearbox, since 1975.
1959 MGA roadster - 1.9L Peter Burgess Engine - 5 speed gearbox
Past LRs - Multiple FFRs, Discos & a Series I - some petrol, some diesel,
none Electric or H2 fuel cell - yet.
There are 10 types of people in this world: Those who understand binary, and those who don’t.
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| 11th May 2013 6:37 am |
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Dave T
Member Since: 03 Jul 2009
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 6902
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Yes, get the swarf tested, not the oil, that should narrow down the possibilities. Joined the BMWX5 45e group
1994 Defender 90
2015 RRS Corris Grey/Black roof
2016 D4 Graphite Santorini Black
2012 D4 XS Orkney Grey
2005 D3 S Maya Gold
Convoy for Heroes 2011
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| 11th May 2013 6:48 am |
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NJSS
Member Since: 06 May 2009
Location: Catherington, Hampshire.
Posts: 10502
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On reflection Dave T is quite right - of course the swarf should be analysed.
You might also choose to take an oil sample after a few thousand miles & have that checked too, to see if the problem is continuing.
NJSS Am I Gammon or Woke ? - I neither know nor care.
2016 Discovery 4 Landmark
2011 Mercedes Benz SL350 (R230)
1973 MG B GT V8 - 3.9L John Eales engine, 5 speed R380 gearbox, since 1975.
1959 MGA roadster - 1.9L Peter Burgess Engine - 5 speed gearbox
Past LRs - Multiple FFRs, Discos & a Series I - some petrol, some diesel,
none Electric or H2 fuel cell - yet.
There are 10 types of people in this world: Those who understand binary, and those who don’t.
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| 11th May 2013 7:02 am |
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747_JK
Member Since: 03 Apr 2010
Location: Surrey
Posts: 268
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SFAIK, it was not analysed further, as they couldn't give any idea of where it was coming from except to say it doesn't necessarily mean the engine is packing up! When I asked which other components could be at fault, the Service Desk suggested the turbos, as an example, could be at fault potentially... Mine were replaced at 14k too, when first the engine went bang.
Now the oil has been replaced I guess there would be nothing to show in the oil, but over the next few weeks the car is supposed to be doing several thousand miles, so I could always get the analysis done after that, once it's had a chance to chew up some more metal! If its still running, that is.
I wanted to fully test the car so did a lap of the M25 at 11pm last night, I kid you not, but she drove fine. Either way, I am armed with an HD video camera in the car now, so at the first sign of trouble again I am going into detailed recording mode with the evidence I capture for LR. 747_JK
"Moab is my happy place"
2019 Land Rover Discovery 5 HSE
2015 Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE - SOLD
2010 Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE with a serious smoking habit - SOLD
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| 11th May 2013 9:02 am |
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747_JK
Member Since: 03 Apr 2010
Location: Surrey
Posts: 268
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After last night's journey round the M25 (my new proving ground), I recorded this on start-up today, circa 12 hours later. This foul smelling smoke on start-up is one of the recurring problems I've noticed with the car in recent weeks, but which the LR dealer could not replicate in 7 days of having my car (up until 2 days ago):
In recent weeks I have reported the following faults:
* Foul-smelling smoke on start-up (not every time, but for me, several times a week)
* Occasional stalling of engine within 60 seconds of start-up, mostly whilst in reverse, occasionally in D
* Swarf identified in engine oil by dealer (but so far unexplained)
* And an instance on 2 May, when the engine began to sound incredibly rough on a 45 minute drive into central London. This is what it sounded like:
Given the car had a major 'B' service (it's 4-year service, which I had performed 5/6k miles early) 150 miles / 2 days ago, it really shouldn't be smoking like this, should it?!
Am i being unreasonable to give this car back to the dealer on Monday and ask them to look again?
And don't forget, this is my second 3.0 litre TDV6 engine already. My first engine holds the current record for the most viewed / replied to thread in this sub-forum of Disco4.com:
http://www.disco4.com/forum/topic55820.html
I LOVE my car, but I just want it to be reliable...! 747_JK
"Moab is my happy place"
2019 Land Rover Discovery 5 HSE
2015 Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE - SOLD
2010 Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE with a serious smoking habit - SOLD
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| 11th May 2013 4:29 pm |
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Dave T
Member Since: 03 Jul 2009
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 6902
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Absolutely not, unreasonable that is. No way it should be like that as you know.
Keep us posted and good luck. Joined the BMWX5 45e group
1994 Defender 90
2015 RRS Corris Grey/Black roof
2016 D4 Graphite Santorini Black
2012 D4 XS Orkney Grey
2005 D3 S Maya Gold
Convoy for Heroes 2011
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| 11th May 2013 5:06 pm |
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