Member Since: 23 Jul 2013
Location: North lincs
Posts: 124
Tailgate issue - not cable or micro switch !,
I've searched the forum and read most of the posts regarding tailgate problems, here's what happened to me.
The other day the upper tailgate wouldn't open, after searching the forum I read about pressing both lock and unlock buttons together for 10 seconds, this didn't work and I prepared myself for the worst getting at the actuator cable.
Next day I decided to have a go at getting at the actuator, I even had some gloves on ready in an attempt to keep some skin on my fingers, before I started I thought just for the hell of it I'd try the 2 buttons together..........click it unlocked, so now slightly puzzled I thought I'd have a look at the micro switch.
I removed the rear handle complete removed the rubber cover and got to the micro swich, it all looked ok, a quick check with the multimeter confirmed it was working, I then tried shorting out the 2 wires in the multiplying, nothing happened.
I knew by then that the actuator must be working as the 2 button trick worked every time, but I though seeing as I was in the mood I'd strip the lower tailgate for a look, everything looked ok, it looks like the actuator has possibly been replaced in the past.
Whilst it was opened up I studied the method of manual release should the cable ever fail, I worked out that by carefully drilling a very small hole in exacting the right place and at the right angle that should the worst ever happen I could push a piece of stiff welding rod or similar throughout this hole and activate the latch, I promptly drilled the hole which due to the carpet is invisible. But I know it's there, I reckon this has to be worth doing.
I then assumed I must have a wiring fault, I jiggled the rubber loom covers at the top of the tailgate whilst pressing the micro switch but nothing happened, by this time last night it was getting dark so I packed up shut the tailgate, tried the latch but it didn't work.
This afternoon I went out to the car, unlocked it, tried the tailgate handle just for the hell of it, it worked straight away and the tailgate opened, in disbelief I shut and opened it half a dozen times, faultless operation, I've been out in the car, used the tailgate whilst out and then again when I got home, it worked every time.
Strange but true.......D4 graphite, Loire Blue, ebony leather.
D3 S Bonnatti Grey, Cloth interior -Gone
Defender 300tdi, 1994, Blue.
Mods:
Pretty much everything. Now also gone, to the USA I believe:
Merc SLK280 silver - sunny weekend toy
Last edited by Mark-w on 8th Apr 2014 9:31 pm. Edited 1 time in total
5th Apr 2014 4:24 pm
Mark-w
Member Since: 23 Jul 2013
Location: North lincs
Posts: 124
Further developments on this one tonight, tailgate has continued to work fine, until tonight when sods law struck and the boot was full of shopping. Emptied via the back seats.
No problem i thought, I've got my cunningly hidden small hole which i can poke a piece of wire through to trip the latch, well working blind it wasn't easy………if fact i found it impossible, even though it was only a couple of days since id seen the small hole through which you could trip the latch lever I could not find it blind with my piece of wire, I had to resort to prising the carpet panel out. Once i could get my fingers up to the latch I was able to guide a bit of wire into the little hole and trip the latch. Hence opening the tailgate.
With further diagnosis and removing the actuator I checked the wiring with a multimeter, every time i touched the microswitch i got a 12 volt pulse at the wiring plug, plugged it back onto the now removed actuator and it then worked but only a few times then stopped, i removed the plug and checked and still had a 12 volt pulse, reconnected it and tried numerous times, sometimes the actuator worked sometimes it didn't.
So after all, I have now concluded that I have an intermit ant fault with the solenoid on the actuator, trust me to have something different other than the usual snapped cable or inoperative micros with i have read so much about.
Out of interest i took the plastic cover off the actuator, I wasn't the 1st person who had done that as the cable end had an additional piece of copper wire wrapped around it as well as a cable tie that didn't look standard, so i guess that is someones previous attempt at making the cable more secure.D4 graphite, Loire Blue, ebony leather.
D3 S Bonnatti Grey, Cloth interior -Gone
Defender 300tdi, 1994, Blue.
Mods:
Pretty much everything. Now also gone, to the USA I believe:
Merc SLK280 silver - sunny weekend toy
7th Apr 2014 8:20 pm
crwoody
Member Since: 09 Mar 2009
Location: Littleborough
Posts: 2109
I added a hidden emergency release cord to mine a couple of years ago after reading about a number of failures, I figured it would be a lot easier to get to it while it's still working
Anyway I was right, some time later it failed, (broken cable end "L" piece in my case) and the release cord proved it's worth
The cord emerges through a small hole I made in the carpet trim piece towards the right side.
Prior to this I'd already had the boot handle switch fail, the cast metal piece inside had corroded and broken in half so I replaced the entire handle.Clive
7th Apr 2014 9:06 pm
Mark-w
Member Since: 23 Jul 2013
Location: North lincs
Posts: 124
I did think about an emergency release mechanism on saturday when I first had it all apart, but thought my small drilled hole was the perfect solution (it wasn't).
I will definitely be incorporating something similar to your idea this time though, as I don't ever want the hassle again.
Just hope my actuator diagnosis is correct.D4 graphite, Loire Blue, ebony leather.
D3 S Bonnatti Grey, Cloth interior -Gone
Defender 300tdi, 1994, Blue.
Mods:
Pretty much everything. Now also gone, to the USA I believe:
Merc SLK280 silver - sunny weekend toy
7th Apr 2014 9:15 pm
crwoody
Member Since: 09 Mar 2009
Location: Littleborough
Posts: 2109
Bit of an odd one there for sure, usually just the switch or cable that fails.
I guess the solenoid itself could be faulty though, maybe a bad connection where the wire from the plug connects to the coil, or a bad connection to one of the pins in the plug, I used to get a lot of that on domestic stuff years ago, connector pins were crimped onto wires and sometimes the wire end was not stripped properly, the crimping action could cut through the insulation and just make contact - until it oxidised a bit some time later.Clive
7th Apr 2014 9:32 pm
Mark-w
Member Since: 23 Jul 2013
Location: North lincs
Posts: 124
Further checks today, I've had the actuator off the car every single time I apply a 12 volt pulse to it direct from a battery it works, never fails, when connected to the car it usually works a few times then seems to stop working, so I tried connecting a bulb to the connector plug, same thing happens with the bulb, flashes several times on operation of the switch then stops, with either the actuator if the bulb, if you leave it a while sometimes it starts working again without doing anything else.
Currently I've given up, I've fitted an emergency release cord should ready for next time it refuses to work.
I'm pretty sure it's not:
1. The actuator, as it works all the time off the car.
2. The micro switch, as when it doesn't work neither does the lock/unlock button trick, I've also stripped and checked the micro switch.
3. The cables not snapped, it has been in the past but it's got a pretty sound repair.
4. Don't think it's the wiring in the rubber tubes as moving all 3 (upper & lower tailgate) doesn't suddenly make it start working again.
Anyone any idea where to look next ?D4 graphite, Loire Blue, ebony leather.
D3 S Bonnatti Grey, Cloth interior -Gone
Defender 300tdi, 1994, Blue.
Mods:
Pretty much everything. Now also gone, to the USA I believe:
Merc SLK280 silver - sunny weekend toy
8th Apr 2014 2:08 pm
joakes
Member Since: 16 Oct 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 49
Tailgate fault
Hi Mark,
I have exactly the same symptoms with my tailgate. I have replaced the handle and the tailgate lock mechanism plus the manual button on top of the lower tailgate all within the last 12 months then this intermittent problem arose recently. It could be the actuator as I havnt checked this but I was wondering if you found a cure ?
Jonathanjoakes
20th Apr 2014 9:37 am
Mark-w
Member Since: 23 Jul 2013
Location: North lincs
Posts: 124
Not certain yet, I replaced the handle / micro switch and havnt had the problem since, replaced last Saturday, however the funny thing is my old micro switch seemed ok when I tested it, I've saved the old handle for further fault testing as I was convinced it was ok.
To be blatantly honest I am now wondering whether I got things totally in a twist during diagnosis, mainly because I didn't realise the central locking seems to shut down after repeated use, I've also started to wonder whether the car was always double unlocked.
I'm currently away on holiday so will double check the old handle upon return, but when I stripped it during fault testing it showed minimal corrosion under the rubber cover.
It's all been a bit of a mastery, but having spent the last week with no tools thinking about it, I'm now wondering whether it was my own fault !!!!!!!
I'll keep the post up to date if and when I find anything conclusive.
But.........fit a manual release cord, I'm glad I have, having taken the hard route in once already.D4 graphite, Loire Blue, ebony leather.
D3 S Bonnatti Grey, Cloth interior -Gone
Defender 300tdi, 1994, Blue.
Mods:
Pretty much everything. Now also gone, to the USA I believe:
Merc SLK280 silver - sunny weekend toy
20th Apr 2014 7:34 pm
mark the spark
Member Since: 22 Jun 2011
Location: southampton
Posts: 2477
Had the same issue a while back talking to a LR tech guy who told me that the system has a voltage ladder which reduces the operating voltage each time you press the microswitch appRently to protect the components from overheating . An older unit won't put enough pressure on the cat h to release first time and each further attempt is less effective
The actuator gets weak over time so replace it and you will be fine . When you compare the action on the new one you will see the difference in MY05 SE D3 Manual my first LR what a car
MY10 HSE D4 auto
MY14 XXV more buttons than the spaceshuttle
20th Apr 2014 7:43 pm
Mark-w
Member Since: 23 Jul 2013
Location: North lincs
Posts: 124
I initially suspected the actuator as it seemed to work a few times then stop, but on removing it and giving it a 12 volt pulse from battery it worked every time, however having since discovered a bit more about how the cars systems control things like Central locking and also this reducing voltage each time it's actuated in succession I may have been on the right lines, however it hasn't happened now for over a week, admittedly I changed the handle but I'm not convinced about that, things were easier to diagnose before all these complexities. If it ever happens again, I'm going for replacing the actuator, I didn't initially as a local dealers the parts guy said all they ever sold was the latch /cable or the handle and that nothing else ever failed...........D4 graphite, Loire Blue, ebony leather.
D3 S Bonnatti Grey, Cloth interior -Gone
Defender 300tdi, 1994, Blue.
Mods:
Pretty much everything. Now also gone, to the USA I believe:
Merc SLK280 silver - sunny weekend toy
20th Apr 2014 9:09 pm
Shutts
Member Since: 26 Nov 2011
Location: Tiptree
Posts: 146
I have the same issue but only when the boot is left in the sun, about 30 deg or above, when in Spain. As with you guys if I leave it for a bit it works again. Wonder if the handle gets hot and the first pull doesnt realse it and the power drops as stated above. Then after its driven either the components cool down or the power is increased.
2005 D3 SE
1998 Disco 300tdi - slow play thing
1995 Defender 300tdi - Winching play thing
Aprilia RSV 1000 - fast play thing
Honda CR250 - noisy play thing
The tailgate won't open more often than not. Its not the cable or the actuator.
I just replaced the tailgate handle even though it was less than 18 months old and the problem is still the same. It can't be the actuator because when the tail gate does randomly open i can press the top button on the lower tailgate and I can hear the actuator opening the lock multiple times.
It seems to be some kind of electrical problem between the handle and the lock but when the handle doesn't open it the two button on the dash technique doesn't work either. All the other locks are fine.
Does anyone know if theres any sort of electrical module that can be a t fault somewhere ?
Jonathanjoakes
24th Apr 2014 1:08 pm
Mark-w
Member Since: 23 Jul 2013
Location: North lincs
Posts: 124
Your diagnosis is incorrect in its method as the top button on the lower tailgate has nothing to do with the actuator that releases the upper tailgate. Hope that helps, I would be suspecting either the actuator or possibly a wire broken in the rubber sleeves to the tailgate.D4 graphite, Loire Blue, ebony leather.
D3 S Bonnatti Grey, Cloth interior -Gone
Defender 300tdi, 1994, Blue.
Mods:
Pretty much everything. Now also gone, to the USA I believe:
Merc SLK280 silver - sunny weekend toy
24th Apr 2014 1:18 pm
joakes
Member Since: 16 Oct 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 49
Hi Mark,
Of course, thinking about it, the noise i'm hearing are the lower tail gate side bolts, so the actuator that controls the top tailgate lock could be at fault, in fact that must be the problem, Bingo !!
Cheers for your help.
Jonathanjoakes
24th Apr 2014 2:45 pm
Mark-w
Member Since: 23 Jul 2013
Location: North lincs
Posts: 124
Maybe !!
But Maybe not !!
from my experience it is more complicated that that, simple logic and on / off switches due not come into it, the car lessens the voltage pulse to the actuators with every subsequent operation in short succession, and after multiple operations in a short period it shuts the central locking down altogether.
I have learnt a lot over the past couple of weeks since i first thought i had an issue. but good luck with it.D4 graphite, Loire Blue, ebony leather.
D3 S Bonnatti Grey, Cloth interior -Gone
Defender 300tdi, 1994, Blue.
Mods:
Pretty much everything. Now also gone, to the USA I believe:
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