Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13930
Winter and Tyres
OK. I'm confused and a little perturbed.
This morning on the school run, which is predominantly on country lanes, I nearly came a cropper with another D3 that was struggling to steer and stop into a passing pass on a very busy route. The car was running on MTRs but wasn't a working vehicle, but was accessorized to look the part!
This got me thinking.
I run an 05 D3 Manual which I've had from new with 90k on the clock and AT2 tyres . Since owning it I've moved from Goodyear M+s to the AT2s which I've run for the last 70k.
To set the scene I live in the highest village in Wiltshire which is off the main gritting route and is often snowed in. it is also surrounded by lanes that are in very poor repair, slippery, flooded and waterlogged in winter. The D3 is my main mode of transport and towing wagon for me in my construction company when I'm on site, which in winter is either frozen, muddy or a quagmire. I also drive many miles across the UK on all roads and all weathers. We use the car all year round as a family car for holidays etc. including spending a few weeks a year in the alps skiing. I also drive a 530d Msport estate which is rear wheel drive and my wife a front wheel drive Merc B class both on low profile tyres.
My confusion is this: i drive 40k+ a year in a mix of awful conditions that most people even on here won't experience as well as main road driving in a variety of cars and have never had the need to put on winter tyres or MTRs.
So why is everyone rushing to put winter tyres or MTRs on for what will typically be less than 3 weeks of snow and more generally rain? I'm particularly curious about the MTRs, which on the lanes around here would be lethal and have never been needed on site despite being well up to my axles in mud.
24th Nov 2010 11:13 am
Ted Newman
Member Since: 09 Oct 2010
Location: SE London
Posts: 840
Fashion statement ??LR Discovery 4 XS pulling an Airstream 532 Caravan also own (since new) a 1996 MGF
24th Nov 2010 11:45 am
ad15
Member Since: 14 Dec 2008
Location: up that tree
Posts: 4866
ok,, for the 50th time,,, they're NOT just for snow,,,,, they are for when the ambient temp drops below 8'!! they warm up quicker than normal tyres due to higher silicon content,, they ALSO have a tread pattern which makes them good in snow...
reason they are gaining popularity is the UK is at last catching up with the continent ..at last...
some of us have been using them for years,,,one wife.......livid
24th Nov 2010 12:10 pm
grzesiul
Member Since: 11 May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 6266
....they are for temp below 8 deg C ..... that would mean driving on strictly winter rubber 7 months a year mate
24th Nov 2010 12:13 pm
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13930
No saying they are for snow. Just wondering if the advantages out way the reduction in handling (MTRs). I can't comment on winter tyres because I've never used them but have also never felt that I needed to.
I'm not having a dig, but this mornings incident made me think, particularly in light of the recent discussions.
Moo, don't confuse MTRs with Winter Tyres. MTRS are not, never have been and never will be a winter compound. On anything other than mud and fresh snow they are hopeless. Less rubber on the tarmac/ice/water and a hard compound does not a winter tyre make.
DSL had a genuine use for them last year as he had 3 months of deep, heavy snow in the North of Scotland. Anyone using them for 2" on roads that have had traffic compacting it is kidding themselves. Anyone using them in cold, wet and icy conditions needs to moderate their driving accordingly.
If you use your car offroad in muddy conditions, they have a place. Wife's boss has them as he owns 20sq miles of Dorset and is out on shoots in all conditions. I find ATRs ample for 8 months of the year and switch to winter rubber in late November as they do grip better in the wet and the cold. The winter rubber I have isn't as good as ATRs in mud, but then I have a 90 with BFG MTs for that.
Most of us will get traction moving forward regardless of tyre choice; it's the advantage of 4wd. Where a winter tyre will excel is in stopping and cornering in low temps. In overall terms, your tyre is well suited to the use you put it to. It won't grip as well as a winter tyre in icy conditions but then neither would a normal road tyre. Pays your money, etc.etc.I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
Moo, I would challenge that your village is the highest in Wiltshire
Edit: ok ok I've just realised we're just over the border, but we're still higher than you!
Seriously, I've found by experience that MT/R's are pretty poor on damp tarmac, with grip much reduced over a standard road tyre. On one recent occasion I was forced to brake very hard to avoid a car pulling out of a side road in front of me, whilst I still had my MT/R's on. ABS kicked in almost immediately and I didn't slow down much.
I'm running AT's on the D3 now which offer a better compromise of safety and performance, in my opinion. Still not a winter tyre though, but should perform better than a summer or mud tyre.
I'm fitting winter tyres to Mrs M's car, as over the last couple of years we've needed them up here
Compare the performance of a true winter tyre (which I'm fitting to Mrs M's car) to an MT/R
The Wrangler MT/R features: Off-road traction in the wet and the snow
Increased traction properties
Deep surface grip
Increased mud evacuation
Improved resistance to punctures
If you have a need to get in and out of muddy fields in all conditions, get MTRs or perhaps an AT and moderate your onroad driving accordingly. Anyone who doesn't regularly (at least once a week) use their D3 in muddy conditions and has MTRs on is compromising their vehicle. Sure, they look cool, but so do tattoos for about 5 minutes.
I await the flames.I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
24th Nov 2010 1:16 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23384
You'll notice that for wet roads they get just 1 out of 5 stars and only 2 out of 5 stars for Winter conditions. So I'm bemused as to why anyone would want to fit them for the winter, unless they spend a lot of time off road.
Winter tyres are designed for optimum performance below 7c. Just search all the tyre manufacturers websites for winter tyre info. Typically they would be used in the UK between Nov. and March.
Only drawback is that winter tyres are no good in the mud. It's for this reason that I use Pirelli ATR's in the winter. I'd like to use a winter tyre, but I go off road every week.
Just seen that NoDo$h has beaten me to it. I agree with his comments on DSL. MTR's are good in deep fresh snow, but I've used MTR's on compacted snow, ice and wet roads and they're not very good. But why would they be, they're a mud tyre!
For the type of driving conditions that you describe, your choice of AT2's is spot on. Althought the new generation of AT tyres (Pirelli ATR and the new kid on block the GG AT) will give you better on road performance whilst still being as good off road.
24th Nov 2010 1:18 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72797
Thought I felt my ears burning!! MTRs have their place, as do roads, as do ATRs (etc). I don't expect to run MTRs for up here in winter and still expect to hoon around like a boy racer on them on clear roads. Similarly SWMBO's car is on 17" Contis and don't expect to have the same grip & control as winters on ice & snow, I change my driving accordingly. Saying that not on MTRs at the mo on my car, have ATRs and will be out playing in the "heavy snow" promised tonight. We'll see how they get on as want to get to the back lanes before Ploughman Bob gets out.
24th Nov 2010 1:45 pm
ad15
Member Since: 14 Dec 2008
Location: up that tree
Posts: 4866
grzesiul wrote:
....they are for temp below 8 deg C ..... that would mean driving on strictly winter rubber 7 months a year mate
yup... and that is exactly what i did a few years back,, when i lived in the highlands i ran winter tyres all year round...they did the job perfectly,,one wife.......livid
24th Nov 2010 6:50 pm
J@mes
Member Since: 10 Nov 2008
Location: Bomber County
Posts: 4547
Re: Winter and Tyres
deleted2014 D4 XS
2005 D3 SE - Gone
24th Nov 2010 7:01 pm
character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
well, new set of wranglers M&S going on the beast int morning for me, been running conti's for past 12 months which are down to the limit.
24th Nov 2010 7:07 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50936
Re: From Goodyear themselves
NoDo$h wrote:
...... and has MTRs on is compromising their vehicle.
Oh wrap up Al ...I've driven on them in all conditions on roads for years without incident...not a twitch, slip or slide. Why should I want to believe or take any notice of any word you or the manufacturers say ?
Where you are perfectly correct is that a driver should always adjust their driving to the conditions instead of having some sort of misguided belief that any tyre might save the day 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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