Member Since: 19 Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 148
Hi all
It sounds like I have a similar problem. I drive the car every second day or so. Typically for about an hour, sometimes as much as two. My FBH still comes on for only 10 minutes, and I assume is cutting out due to battery issues.
My D4 is only just over 4 months old, and I am pretty sure it only left the factory in August, so I don't think its a battery issue.
What everyone seems to be suggesting is that you get a CTEK and charge the car through the towing electrics. In theory that is great. In practice however, I live on the 4th floor and I typically park on a street near my house if there is one available (the joys of living in London).
With that in mind, charging from a wall socket is out of the question.
So now what? Buy a new battery every week and swap it out?
Get an auxiliary battery and hope that helps?
Find some way of charging a remote charger and then charge the battery with that?
Any other ideas?
18th Jan 2013 2:19 pm
Landylad
Member Since: 23 Dec 2008
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 366
Well, a few days of using the FBH and stuff, and even with the BMS software mods, the battery still drains to the point where battery warning comes up and decativates FBH, with about 12v on the volt meter.
Anyway, a quick question on chargers and cables. Did someone on here mention what pins I need to hook up in a 12-Pin connector in order to charge the battery using towing connections?
Also, I have a non-CTEK charger with croc clips, and want to chop these and make up my own cable. Anyone got any thoughts on what type of connector/cable I should use? Ideally I would want to have 2 charging connectors.... one with croc clips for all other vehicles and one with the 12-pin connector for my D4.
Cheers.If in doot, flat oot!!
18th Jan 2013 3:48 pm
drivesafe
Member Since: 23 Feb 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 867
Hi Landylad and 2 suggestions, you could cut the battery charger leads and either used 50 amp Anderson plugs to join them and add another to an S12 plug wired to charge through the rear socket of you D4.
Or you could do a similar set up but use the much smaller 30 amp Anderson Power Poles.
If you use the 30 amp Anderson Power Poles, you could simply run a short length of twin cable from you cranking battery to a point in the front of your grill and use this as your battery charger connection point. You will need to put a suitably sized fuse in the positive wire.
This is a lot easier to access than having to plug and unplug an S12 socket.
One other suggestion, no matter which connection you decide on.
Make the lead from the battery charger long enough so that you can plug the charger in to charge the D4 but also long enough so you can drape the lead over the driver’s rear view mirror.
Nothing more embarrassing than driving down the road towing the battery charger behind you.2008 TDV8 RR Lux + 2009 D4 2.7
18th Jan 2013 9:33 pm
Landylad
Member Since: 23 Dec 2008
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 366
Anyone got a wiring diagram for 12S plug (as I need to understand where pin 3 and 4 sit in relation to everything else)?
Edit: No worries, I found one on tinternetIf in doot, flat oot!!
18th Jan 2013 9:43 pm
phl
Member Since: 07 Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 111
warrenkerrigan wrote:
In practice however, I live on the 4th floor and I typically park on a street near my house if there is one available (the joys of living in London).
With that in mind, charging from a wall socket is out of the question.
One suggestion on the Australian forum is to have some live Aux sockets (not sure how it's done on the D4, as there may not be a simple relay bypass as in the D3, but you can probably tap into the S12 live feed at the back)), and plug in a solar panel charger (at least 10W), and leave it there.
As we probably get more sun in Sydney, may not work for you, or you may need to use a higher wattage to compensate.
19th Jan 2013 7:37 am
Landylad
Member Since: 23 Dec 2008
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 366
Cheers Phil.
OK, so I have used some twin & earth 2.0mm2 cable and modified my battery charger with a quick connector and a towing electrics plug...... all seems to be ok so far.
Only question now is, the charger is on a 2A charge (planning on having it on for around 13hrs). On the charger, it shows either amp rate, voltage of battery percentage. I've got it on the amps display just now, and it's sitting about 0.5A (a few hours into the charge).
As I'm totally clueless about the cycle these things go through, does it sound like it's doing the health check/drain before it starts to give it a full charge?
Cheers again folks.If in doot, flat oot!!
19th Jan 2013 10:33 pm
Landylad
Member Since: 23 Dec 2008
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 366
This seems to be turning into a bit of a War & Peace saga this.
Anyways, further update and some details on BMS amongst others.
As mentioned above, I've had the BMS software update. Since then, have been using FBH a good few mornings in a row. It seemed ok, certainly no warnings on dash about low battery. On Saturday evening, prior to a trip skiing the next day, I put the battery on charge overnight on a 2A setting. That lasted around 14-15 hours in total. Started up ok after FBH activated Sunday morning and drove around 120 miles that same day.
Monday - FBH on early doors - no worries, although volt meter showing around 11 volts (bit low).
Put it on a fast charge last night until it had said 'FULL' on the charger.... turned on FBH via phone this morning and when I got in, the warning light was back on dash and hadn't lasted the full cycle.
So, called up LR dealer up here and let them know.
My synopsis is that, even though the tests they made on battery showed it to be acceptable voltage under no load, that the battery is not able to take on board a full charge and reverts back to around 12-12.5V. This they say, is ok under LR guidance for acceptable battery.
I've made my feelings clear and left the matter with the Workshop Manager. Obviously no point in having a piece of functionality that means you have to charge your battery up every couple of days. So what I'm hoping for is a replacement battery and at that stage, I'll upgrade to AGM.
Any further thoughts from the electrically minded genii on the forum (Drivesafe.... )???If in doot, flat oot!!
22nd Jan 2013 11:52 am
warrenkerrigan
Member Since: 19 Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 148
phl wrote:
warrenkerrigan wrote:
In practice however, I live on the 4th floor and I typically park on a street near my house if there is one available (the joys of living in London).
With that in mind, charging from a wall socket is out of the question.
One suggestion on the Australian forum is to have some live Aux sockets (not sure how it's done on the D4, as there may not be a simple relay bypass as in the D3, but you can probably tap into the S12 live feed at the back)), and plug in a solar panel charger (at least 10W), and leave it there.
As we probably get more sun in Sydney, may not work for you, or you may need to use a higher wattage to compensate.
Thanks for the tip there. I am not sure that is going to work, mostly as we just don't see blue sky here that often! Mostly grey cloud cover. That said, it might be worth a shot if there are no other options.
I got a digital multimeter and did some tests this morning. Anyone know if these look right? i.e. does the behaviour seem normal?
* 12.04V after trying to use the FBH
* 13.10V One min after starting.
* 13.28V Two mins after starting.
* 14.20V Five mins after starting.
* 14.88V if I turn everything off.
* 12.80V if I turn it all on again.
* After two further mins it jumps to 14.60V and hops between there and 14.67V
Also has anyone come across any type of portable battery charger? i.e. something I could charge at home and then connect to the car (from the inside) and leave it charging?
22nd Jan 2013 12:45 pm
drivesafe
Member Since: 23 Feb 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 867
Hi warren and those voltage readings are with the motor at idle.
They show your alternator is working fine and if you had taken the readings while driving, I would not be surprised to see your voltage go over 15v, which is good for your battery.
This is a suggestion, there is a way to charge your battery from a battery pack ( also known as a booster pack ).
If you had a battery pack, a small inverter and a small battery charger, you could use the battery pack to power the inverter and the inverter would then be used to power your battery charger.
You could put this in your rear cargo area and run a twin cable out to your S12 plug.
In this situation, a small battery charger is definitely better and offers a number of advantages over a larger charger.
The smaller the load put on a battery, the more energy you get from that battery. IE, ROUGHLY for example only, if you apply a 1 amp load to any form of lead acid battery, say a 100Ah battery, theoretically, you should get 100 hours from the battery. Call this equal to 100 units of energy.
If you apply a 5 amp load to the same battery, you will be likely to get about 18 hours or 90 units of energy.
Apply a 10 load and you are now lucky to get 6 hours or somewhere around 60 units of energy.
So a small inverter and battery charger means you will get more out of your battery pack.
Next and again there is an advantage from using a small charger, a battery being charge with a small current ( over a longer time ) will require less energy to get it to a fully charged state than when being charged with a higher current charger.
So small in this situation is a win-win set up.
Warren, if you use say a 40Ah battery pack, a 150w inverter and a 1 amp ( or smaller ) battery charger, after few days of charging over night, you could then leave it to a once a week or even once a fortnight choir.
The Battery Pack can be left on mains power during the day, using the same battery charger.
As posted, just a suggestion2008 TDV8 RR Lux + 2009 D4 2.7
23rd Jan 2013 9:37 am
warrenkerrigan
Member Since: 19 Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 148
drivesafe wrote:
Hi warren and those voltage readings are with the motor at idle.
They show your alternator is working fine and if you had taken the readings while driving, I would not be surprised to see your voltage go over 15v, which is good for your battery.
This is a suggestion, there is a way to charge your battery from a battery pack ( also known as a booster pack ).
If you had a battery pack, a small inverter and a small battery charger, you could use the battery pack to power the inverter and the inverter would then be used to power your battery charger.
You could put this in your rear cargo area and run a twin cable out to your S12 plug.
In this situation, a small battery charger is definitely better and offers a number of advantages over a larger charger.
The smaller the load put on a battery, the more energy you get from that battery. IE, ROUGHLY for example only, if you apply a 1 amp load to any form of lead acid battery, say a 100Ah battery, theoretically, you should get 100 hours from the battery. Call this equal to 100 units of energy.
If you apply a 5 amp load to the same battery, you will be likely to get about 18 hours or 90 units of energy.
Apply a 10 load and you are now lucky to get 6 hours or somewhere around 60 units of energy.
So a small inverter and battery charger means you will get more out of your battery pack.
Next and again there is an advantage from using a small charger, a battery being charge with a small current ( over a longer time ) will require less energy to get it to a fully charged state than when being charged with a higher current charger.
So small in this situation is a win-win set up.
Warren, if you use say a 40Ah battery pack, a 150w inverter and a 1 amp ( or smaller ) battery charger, after few days of charging over night, you could then leave it to a once a week or even once a fortnight choir.
The Battery Pack can be left on mains power during the day, using the same battery charger.
As posted, just a suggestion
Wow! That sounds like a simple yet clever solution. Thanks!
It also sounds like what I was looking for. Thanks for that Drivesafe!
I will have a little play and let you know how I get on.
Warren
23rd Jan 2013 11:32 am
Landylad
Member Since: 23 Dec 2008
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 366
Hmm, my thread's been hijacked
Any thoughts on my issues (of the battery variety )?If in doot, flat oot!!
23rd Jan 2013 12:15 pm
warrenkerrigan
Member Since: 19 Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 148
Landylad wrote:
Hmm, my thread's been hijacked
Any thoughts on my issues (of the battery variety )?
Oops! Sorry.
It is kind of related...same problem, just a different solution.
23rd Jan 2013 12:18 pm
Landylad
Member Since: 23 Dec 2008
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 366
No worries, it was very much a tongue in cheek comment. If in doot, flat oot!!
23rd Jan 2013 12:32 pm
SHARKYSHARKS
Member Since: 20 Dec 2008
Location: Saddleworth Oldham
Posts: 1954
Landylad wrote:
Hmm, my thread's been hijacked
Any thoughts on my issues (of the battery variety )?
Hi LL
I have also had the same issues as you and i have tested the battery and there was no fault, and the car has been charging at 14+ volts.
So i have bit the bullet and changed to an AGM battery as i am sick of going out when SWMBO has the car and she uses the remote heat twice in a day, then battery low message and then there is not even enough power to start the engine
Luckily in my service van i have enough spare battery's to give her a jump
I have upgraded anyway to try and eliminate this problem and so far so good i have bought the Varta G14 Stop/ Start AGM which cost me Around £80 plus the VAT.
I still charge the D4 every night through the tow socket but i have had no drain issues so far.
One thing that came to my attention which i think contributes to the battery drain especially on short journeys, is the front and rear heated screen come on automatically dependant on temperature.
So now that i am aware of that and half the time they are not required I turn em off
Cheers
SharkyMY18 D5 HSE LUX😎
MY12 Freelander SD4 HSE
44 Tonne 12 Litre 6x2 Scania T cab (Current)
Freelander 1 (Wrote off 😫)
Ex D1
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Ex D4 GS
Club skip ya lockers !!!
Club BAS remote heater !!
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23rd Jan 2013 12:32 pm
drivesafe
Member Since: 23 Feb 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 867
Hi folks and while I think the AGMs may improve your “problem†solving, the route cause is still the short driving routines.
It’s the Shopping Trolley Syndrome and it’s a common problem to many makes, not just LRs.
Shark and Warren, even though you both consider having “other†electrics switched on, as being part of the cause for the low batteries, this would only be the case if you were continually caught up in slow moving traffic.
Under normal driving conditions, if you can keep your revs above 1500 RPM, your alternator will easily meet your demands and at the average drive speed you should see no more than about a 0.1 to 0.2v drop in voltage between having the basics on and having everything on.
The window heaters do seem to be the biggest current draw devices and when I have been carrying out load testing, with two low batteries, the cranking battery and the auxiliary battery, both at 11.5v, at starting, there was a good voltage drop when the front and rear demisters were turned on.
But even in this situation, I had no problems charging both batteries at the same time the heaters were on.
Again, Sharky, Warren and Landylad, you need to look at your driving habits and if you suffer form Shopping Trolley Syndrome, alternate charging of your battery is the only solution.
But I am still interested in hearing how the AGMs perform.
Warren, that set up is a modification of something I have been supplying to my customers for about 15 years now.
The only difference is that instead of setting it up to charge a cranking battery, it is used to keep a camper trailer or caravan house batteries charged.
Free camping is becoming more and more popular over here and many RVers often set up their camper or caravan in one spot for a week or so, but use the tow vehicle to do day trips or what ever.
With my isolators allowing half of the cranking battery’s reserve capacity to be used, when they have finished driving for the day, they plug an inverter into the Anderson plug at the rear of their tow vehicle and then run an ordinary 240VAC extension cord to the CT or caravan.
The battery charger is then powered over night and as the tow vehicle batteries discharge, the house batteries charge.
Then the next time they go for a drive, as they are charging two batteries at the same time, this equates to a 2 hour drive providing 4 hours of battery charging, and they are ready for the next nights house battery charging.
They can literally keep the CT or caravan batteries charged indefinitely without ever connecting to mains, solar, or a generator.
So Warren, if you do try the set up, lets us know how quick your cranking battery ends up being fully charged for.2008 TDV8 RR Lux + 2009 D4 2.7
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Mostly grey cloud cover. That said, it might be worth a shot if there are no other options.
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