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Rob Bruce
Member Since: 18 Jun 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 687
  
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Peter, Also I think you will find the diesel ignites first which in turn ignites the LPG.
This is what completes the burn. Diesel combusts when the compression rises, at around 16 to 1 LPG will not combust unless it has a spark. ie the diesel ignites the LPG.
Just getting things in the correct order  but I dont think my spelling is in order 
Cheers
Rob MY05 TDV6 SE, dirt colour, Now cremated !!!!!!!
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 23rd Jul 2008 9:00 am |
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norto
Member Since: 10 Apr 2006
Location: batemans bay
Posts: 1605
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No matter what you do with petrol it is still a liquid, the more you can vaporise it
the better the burn, but it is still a liquid. This is the problem with internal combustion
engines....petrol/diesel doesnt explode, it burns. this is one of the reasons valve
opening durations and fuel atomisation are critical to a vehicles economy and performance .
Also the cost of the petrol injected would diminish any savings. Pete
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| 23rd Jul 2008 9:07 am |
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Rob Bruce
Member Since: 18 Jun 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 687
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Peter, I said it combusts not explodes, also feules no matter what they are must be turned into a gasious state, this is what injectors and carbys do which I know you know.
Tuning timing and preasurs of injectors makes a lot of difference especially in conventional diesels, the engine management system in modern diesels has the advantage of doing this continually on the go to get better gains, not sure if it can adjust preasure, these computorised systems are beyond my expertese 
With time I may learn more about them
Cheers
Rob MY05 TDV6 SE, dirt colour, Now cremated !!!!!!!
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| 23rd Jul 2008 9:29 am |
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norto
Member Since: 10 Apr 2006
Location: batemans bay
Posts: 1605
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 Pete
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| 23rd Jul 2008 9:38 am |
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Bushwanderer
Member Since: 27 Nov 2007
Location: Northern Rivers, NSW, Australia
Posts: 2050
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James R wrote:Can someone explain to me how they sell LPG in litres?
As it's a gas it is compressible and thereofre the volume depends upon the pressure at which it is stored.
Or, as the name implies, is it stored and sold at such presuures that it is actually a liquid?
Hi James,
You are right. It is LIQUEFIED Petroleum Gas (LPG).
Best Wishes,
Peter
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| 25th Jul 2008 8:03 am |
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norto
Member Since: 10 Apr 2006
Location: batemans bay
Posts: 1605
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I did some phoning around yesterday and i can buy
a LPG kit for $1900. I fitted a petrol gas conversion
to my falcon work ute when i had the wrecking yard...this looks a lot easier.
A local gas fitter signed off on my ute and said he would sign off on the D3 conversion
which still gets me the $2000 rebate from the Govt.
Have to wait till warranty runs out...... and get a lot more motivated Pete
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| 29th Jul 2008 10:47 am |
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ianv
Member Since: 20 Dec 2007
Location: Bungendore, New South Wales
Posts: 338
 
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Hi Peter,
Interseting, my warranty is less than 6 moths to run, Feb 09, Are you lookng at the low volume kits, eg 20 Litre cyclinder to give a 10% shot into 200 Litre of diesel?
I would be interested in teaming up on the fitting work.
All the best
Ianv TDV6
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| 29th Jul 2008 11:07 am |
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norto
Member Since: 10 Apr 2006
Location: batemans bay
Posts: 1605
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Ian this is the D-Gas system
its not as computer controlled the one from Newcaslte but they
wont supply the kit and they want $4600 installed.
Google DGas and have a look Pete
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| 29th Jul 2008 11:19 am |
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Rob Bruce
Member Since: 18 Jun 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 687
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Just been watching the Top Gear dvd Polar Adventure, Oh what wags Clarkson and Hammond great 
But back to useing petrol mixed in the diesel, They used av.gas mixed with the the diesel to stop it freezing at Minus 40 degres C. in the Hilux, they did not say at what ratio, but it worked and no dammage 
So with the correct ratio could this do the same job as the lpg fumagation 
Assumeing av gas is what we call the petrol used in small planes,
Cheers
Rob MY05 TDV6 SE, dirt colour, Now cremated !!!!!!!
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| 2nd Aug 2008 9:38 am |
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danny
Member Since: 17 May 2008
Location: Tel Aviv
Posts: 68
 
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Hi Snowy
As one who drove a V8 with LPG I'll explain:
You drive basicaly yhe same miles per gallon on both. You use only one of them !!
When you drive on LPG the cost per gallon is about half price of diesel or patrol, therfore you save
routhly 50% of the petrol you use. In other words if you drive 31 MPG you will do the same with
LPG bur paying half cost.
Danny
p.s I missed the conversation, from the first page, while placing this explanation. Sorry.
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| 2nd Aug 2008 5:13 pm |
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simonsi
Member Since: 14 Oct 2007
Location: Auckland
Posts: 1264
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danny wrote:Hi Snowy
As one who drove a V8 with LPG I'll explain:
You drive basicaly yhe same miles per gallon on both. You use only one of them !!
Nope, unlike a petrol engine diesels CANNOT run on pure LPG as there is nothing to ignite the mixture, a diesel LPG installation will run on diesel or diesel+LPG but not LPG alone. Cheers
Simon
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| 2nd Aug 2008 10:18 pm |
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opodden
Member Since: 29 Jun 2006
Location: Elverum
Posts: 100
 
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My car has been Turbo chipped, EGR relieved and has an open exhaust. But it's still quite slow, partly due to the added weight of Offroving rock sliders, winch etc. Engine vibration also became more noticeable after fitting Rasta underbody protection, probably due to the removal of sound proofed original covers.
Increasing horsepower further by conventional tuning will be very expensive (new intercooler may help a little)I'm considering installing an LPG kit in order to gain some extra horses when I need them. Especially overtaking other cars is scary when someone approaches rapidly in the opposite direction! Smoother running in every day use, and less fuel consumption in most cases is a welcome bonus, and helps to reduce the overall cost a little.
DieselGas Technologies states up to 20% increase in power and torque. On their web site, there are dyno graphs from a number of different installations. Older Land Rovers (D200/300/TD5) show gains over 25%. Toyotas are mixed, with modern D4D's around 15% but 100 series 4,2Di again is over 25%.
So, even with a conservative 15% gain, that would on my 240BHP engine give a power gain of 36 horses. An optimistic 25% gain equates 60 horses. That is worth paying £2000 for in my book!
I would like to hear from people on this forum who has tried this, also an update from dellpitch would be nice. If someone has dynoed their car before and after, that would be even sweeter.
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| 11th Aug 2009 11:13 am |
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norto
Member Since: 10 Apr 2006
Location: batemans bay
Posts: 1605
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I have spoken to a few blokes who have had it done to their 4x4s
and they reckon they go like "a dog shot in the bum" Pete
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| 11th Aug 2009 12:58 pm |
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DingMark
Member Since: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Perth Oz or Erbil, Iraq
Posts: 388
 
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simonsi wrote:danny wrote:Hi Snowy
As one who drove a V8 with LPG I'll explain:
You drive basicaly yhe same miles per gallon on both. You use only one of them !!
Nope, unlike a petrol engine diesels CANNOT run on pure LPG as there is nothing to ignite the mixture, a diesel LPG installation will run on diesel or diesel+LPG but not LPG alone.
Slightly OTT. There are some mine sites around that originally had big industrial diesel engines to generate power (5-10 MW big). Both in the US and Australia, I've been involved in getting either natural gas or, alternately LPG (propane+butane mix) to them. The engines were modified to run on up to 95% natural gas (or LPG), with the 5% diesel supplying ignition - ie, acting like a spark plug. The combustion process gets unstable around 90% gas/LPG but with big generators, even though they run at constant RPM and load. However, it's worth the cost to put on complex controls to make the savings. Was also more recently involved on an oil field development in Western Aust in which the trucks hauling the crude oil to the refinery run on 80% natural gas and 20% diesel. It was doable and saved a lot of cost, but the engines were more tempremental and extra maintenance costs ate about 1/3 of the fuel savings. To me, the moral of this story is that mixing in LPG (or natural gas) may be feasible, but adding in an extra system always increases complexity, leading to higher costs and more tempermental, inherently less robust operation. (Note: This isn't the reason I have a "simple" V8. My family sedan is a diesel). Jim Dowell - D4 HSE TDi, 12,000 hydraulic winch & hidden winch mount, MTRs, TyreDog, Traxide 2 x aux battery system, fixed air compressor, Dolium roof rack, MitchHitch.
RIP 2005 D3 HSE V8 5 seater gold (stolen and torched)
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| 11th Aug 2009 2:04 pm |
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opodden
Member Since: 29 Jun 2006
Location: Elverum
Posts: 100
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The car is so complicated already, that one gizmo extra wouldn't make any difference....
More seriously: My impression of the principal behind these systems is that the installation of a kit like DieselGas' Sequent II will not affect the normal injection system. That means that if the LPG system malfunctions, the car will just operate as a normal diesel. Is this correct?
I'm still interested in seeing some numbers on power increase from a D3 installation; dyno readouts, acceleration numbers etc. Preferably from someone not selling the system, but manufacturer's numbers will do.
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| 16th Aug 2009 12:20 pm |
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