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Robbie's Guide To The Low Pressure Fuel System
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stevenA
 


Member Since: 28 Jun 2017
Location: angola
Posts: 1

2012 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Fuji WhiteDiscovery 4

Thanks for a very useful and informative post Robbie.

A quick question. On a D4, what is the impact of the filter being installed in the wrong position (i.e. not with the arrows aligned correctly)?

I have been having increasing "reduced Performance" messages, and after having eliminated the MAP, repaired the mouse eaten vacuum actuator pipe, changed the air filter and forced a soot filter clean, turned to this thread and checked the fuel filter, only to find that it was incorrectly fitted and dirty - all of that despite the fact the car was serviced (and filter changed) at 9000 Kms and to date has still only done 15k km.

Thanks
  
Post #183158128th Jun 2017 5:13 pm
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Dartmoor Dave
 


Member Since: 08 May 2017
Location: South West
Posts: 17

United Kingdom 

To anybody coming into this topic late I can confirm that the Walbro pump part number is good and can be readily found on ebay as GSS 503 as its fitted to various models of Peugeot 2.0 HDI fitted engines as well. This is for the TDV6 2005ish on in tank pump. There is no need to buy the full module as its a basic task for any DIY mech to remove the pump, disassemble the housing and replace the pump. You may need to sort the supplied wires with a soldering iron to the original connector.

The big problem is cleaning the pump filter. This is a combination of gauze and some sort of felt crap that only LR could come up with. Anybody else has a nylon gauze bag that could be cleaned with an airline.
If anybody knows whether this filter has a part number then fess up!
I did clean it but its a piece of Censored .
What is odd is that the pump is rated up to 3 bar(42lbs) full flow but LR seem fit to choke to 7.5 psi which is where you would think it would cope no problem.
Who knows, there's no shortage of suppliers so go to it.
I can't wait to fit the new one to my neighbours D3 and see what the guage says on the Schrader check point.
  
Post #183200529th Jun 2017 7:04 pm
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lynalldiscovery
 


Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 3926

United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 Metropolis LE Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 3

Dave keep the topic updated Thumbs Up
 No Illeism here.  
Post #183201129th Jun 2017 7:14 pm
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Dartmoor Dave
 


Member Since: 08 May 2017
Location: South West
Posts: 17

United Kingdom 

OK, I'm back.
Tried the new pump, still nothing at the engine end. Removed tank, rigged battery to pump on the floor, expected it to Censored out with no main filter to cope with.
I could have Censored faster on a saturday night. Now going through the restrictors and regulator next. Return to tank lines are free flowing and good squirt, line to engine, nowt.

I don't doubt for a minute that a lot of peoples poor running. starting, acceleration, performance is down to poor flow / pressure from tank pump system rather than pump itself. The old pump pushes 3 bar no problem.
More later.
  
Post #184590710th Aug 2017 10:25 am
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Dartmoor Dave
 


Member Since: 08 May 2017
Location: South West
Posts: 17

United Kingdom 

Mean't to say, regulator has no on it of 2970 600 0500. Looks like Bosch unit on google images and same as td5 but thats 4 bar so no easy swap.
Is it a LR part, the regulator, 'cos I only see the whole tank unit?
  
Post #184591110th Aug 2017 10:28 am
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Dartmoor Dave
 


Member Since: 08 May 2017
Location: South West
Posts: 17

United Kingdom 

Further to my ramblings. Took the tank off, checked inside, reassembled all connections etc.
Plugged vehicle harness to tank while on the deck, fitted a gauge like that shown by Robbie to the output pipe to filter. A small piece of rigid nylon / plastic pipe was a snug fit in the connector(blue), heavily taped into place for purpose of test. Gauge jammed into pipe and key turned on.
Yippee, 7 lbs of pressure and the regulator dumping the rest as per the manual.
Refitted tank to vehicle and then checked at Shrader valve as per.
Good news, 6.5 lbs at valve and steady.
Fired up and road test.

Went off looking for a tree to hang myself. Absolutely no difference, 3000 revs and pulling like a train. !0 secs into accel and bing bong, back to idle.
All this work has only produced 500 revs more before failure.
Now about to rig a longer hose to valve and drive it while having the gauge tied to the wiper so can see pump delivery at all times.
Watch this space.
  
Post #184629211th Aug 2017 12:39 pm
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Dartmoor Dave
 


Member Since: 08 May 2017
Location: South West
Posts: 17

United Kingdom 

Next page of the saga.

Road test with gauge confirmed fuel delivery was OK at no less than 5psi. BUT, 1/2 mile into test and Bing Bong, dropped to idle.
Crept down to local LR man with magic box. Magic box say fuel delivery OK but RHS EGR valve is stuck and is most likely shutting off the ECU.

In the UK, diesel is now 5% veggy oil and this is giving rise to endless stories of black sludge in filters.
I can only say our filters had this crap in them and although we have cured the fuel flow problem at the moment, only time will tell when it returns. This Disco has done 80k but is only occasional use. Whether constant daily use would be different I don't know?
Because setting the EGR needs magic box, its booked in to LR man next week.
I'll keep the forum updated but anybody having similar problems on acceleration and cutting out. Get a check of the EGR operation.
  
Post #184990022nd Aug 2017 9:24 am
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Weedyapl
 


Member Since: 23 Sep 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 58

Australia 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Causeway GreyDiscovery 3

dd disco wrote:
Some pics and a video of my results.

I think my pump may be faulty as I have been getting random P0087 errors, along with the dreaded bong - transmission fault, suspension lowering, engine system fault, special programs off etc. hoping it is the LP pump as it seems to be quite a bit cheaper than the HP one.

The pump draws around 3.35 - 3.45 A when the engine is running, when first turning on the ignition it pressurises up to around 6 psi very quickly. As can be seen in the video the pressure then drops to 3.5 psi once the car is running, the needle also moves considerably when the engine is idling. If you rev the engine this drops off further, and with a big rev the needle will go into the vacuum side of the gauge.


Thanks for your video with it i was able to asertain my problem i think. I've had a rough cold engine start up and i tested glow plugs which were fine as was my injectors after replacing two of them way out of spec. Your video showed pressure building up instantly after key on engine off, mine literally takes over 9 seconds to build up to 4.5 PSI. I have no drive ability issues however just this rough start.
  
Post #185165227th Aug 2017 11:04 am
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Dartmoor Dave
 


Member Since: 08 May 2017
Location: South West
Posts: 17

United Kingdom 

If you've read my pump saga I think you could be seeing the onset of in tank pump filter blocking. When we'd got to the bottom of the problem the pump hit max 7.5 not running in 3-4 secs and held 5 during the road test. I'm inclined to think that you are seeing our original problem of low fuel supply pressure coming. That didn't fix things however and the local LR bod awaits. Ours would run smoothly but quit at 2000 revs.
Now looking at stuck EGR, will report findings later.
  
Post #185175827th Aug 2017 6:48 pm
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Weedyapl
 


Member Since: 23 Sep 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 58

Australia 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Causeway GreyDiscovery 3

With a bit more testing ive noticed quite often its only hitting 4 PSI and taking 10 seconds. If i wait for 9-10 seconds before cranking 95% of the starts are fine now.

I don't have a fuse buddy ordered one but got impatient and found mini fuse voltage drop chart on another one of robbies other posts (Robbie should list paypal details for donations?) and tested the fuse test points. I appear to have the worst pump on this thread.

6.8mV
2881mA according to chart located here:
http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hub/232160/file-32...8581203243
2.8A draw Shocked

So this tells me at least whether or not i have a leak my pump is stuffed regardless. They say land rovers are unreliable well my pumps been running like this for a long time.

Interestingly enough last year i got heaps of indies to investigate this issue and all of them said injectors Rolling Eyes and the quote from them to replace the full set was like $6500 and it wouldnt have fixed it anyway. I bought two for $500 from UK replaced the ones out of spec and readings are fine now but problem still existed.

Ordering a pump from UK cause over here its literally twice the price will install it with a family friend who is a retired mechanic.
  
Post #185237530th Aug 2017 3:26 am
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Robbie
 


Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: Waiting for my old avatar to be allowed back... we miss her!
Posts: 17555

United Kingdom 2013 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Baltic BlueDiscovery 4

Most kind but I only do this stuff to help people. I do understand that good manners can compel members to offer financial gestures. These are graciously received at the following link which accepts Paypal, Nochex and bank transfers:

http://disco4.com/forum/donate.php

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Post #185238530th Aug 2017 6:27 am
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slinger
 


Member Since: 23 May 2011
Location: Mountsorrel, Leicestershire
Posts: 54

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Rimini RedDiscovery 3

I have been suffering the same issues with my 58 RRS. I know I should post on the RRS forum but there is lot more about this issue here than there. I did have a D3 and never had these issues but the RRS can be fine for several hundreds of miles then suffer from the bongs at the most inconvenient moments. Last week Friday afternoon it failed around 8 times, I managed to limp to a service station and fill up with diesel in the hope it may be crap on the filters and in some way this would work. It did I managed to very carefully drive the remaining 60 miles without issue. All the failures have been while travelling fast on motorways.

Unfortunately I only have a Hawkeye diagnostic tool but I did notice the fuel temperature was 72 deg C. I am not sure what it should be.

Anyway after reading as many posts as possible on the issue I have made the following measurements following Robbie's instructions

Engine off 6.3 psi with 3.3 A
At Idle 4 psi with 3.7 A
at 2000 revs stood still 2.5 psi with 3.7A
at 3000 revs stood still 2 psi with 3.7A
at 4000 revs stood still 0 psi with 3.7A

From these readings is it possible to diagnose a weak pump before I start dropping the tank?
  
Post #18534102nd Sep 2017 1:34 pm
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jetmech
 


Member Since: 22 Feb 2016
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 152

United Kingdom 2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Manual Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3

Does this look like a bad pump?



Here should be a bad video clip sequence, ignition on, time out, engine running.

 Simon.
2008MY Dicovery 3 TDV6 SE Manual 
 
Post #18551757th Sep 2017 6:20 pm
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KostasA
 


Member Since: 23 Aug 2015
Location: nairobi
Posts: 124

Greece 

pressure fluctuation is too much. if i recall on this thread someone mentions that if pressure fluctuates not a good sign.
  
Post #18555088th Sep 2017 7:46 pm
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jetmech
 


Member Since: 22 Feb 2016
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 152

United Kingdom 2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Manual Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3

Well I have changed the LPFP with a Land Rover pump but disappointingly nothing has changed.
The pressure is steady at 6.5 psi and a current draw of 3.4 Amps with the engine off. With the engine running the pressure fluctuates wildly and the current draw is 4.1 Amps.
Could the fluctuating pressure be caused by the HPFP?
The fault codes seem to alternate between P0087-00 (fuel rail/system pressure too low) and P2290-00 (injector control pressure too low)
 Simon.
2008MY Dicovery 3 TDV6 SE Manual 
 
Post #185751514th Sep 2017 1:10 pm
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