Member Since: 30 Mar 2014
Location: Midlands
Posts: 171
Split charging D4
After looking at split charging on D3's I liked the idea but, owning a later D4, I have the transfer ECU, and glow plug relay in the tray with the brake master cylinder, so I looked through my catalogues at work for the biggest, highest powered battery I could fit in the limited space, I came across this motobatt, which is a heavy duty version, it's not big in power, but enough for fridges, aux sockets and so on, also it's not a leisure battery, but is a AGM type ( absorbent glass material ), and nice that they come with 4 terminals, 2 positive and 2 negative, it's 390 CCA, 32 AH, so I set about removing the glow plug bracket, to give me the space I needed, and it was spot on.
I used the Durite split charge relay, which is a great unit, and I have fitted many of these to customers vehicles in the past.
Hope you like this little mod, and it helps others to over come there issues.
11th Jun 2015 9:14 pm
Bodsy Site Sponsor
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Simple solution, but with some Ecu moving you can get a yellow top in there.Bodsys Brake Bible
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11th Jun 2015 9:17 pm
drivesafe
Member Since: 23 Feb 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 867
Hi Streffie, as Bodsy posted and here is a link to a thread in the USA, where a guy has a good instructive writeup on how to move and mount the gear in the auxiliary battery box ( battery box on the driver’s side in the USA is a mirror of the UK setup )
Member Since: 23 Feb 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 867
Streffie wrote:
Shame it's so messy, could of been a tidy job, wiring a bit vulnerable on those metal brake lines
Hi again Streffie, and the wiring could be tidier and that is up to the installer but by moving gear around in the auxiliary battery box, as the thread covers, you are able to fit an Optima D34 55Ah battery.
That would give your dual battery setup a 70% increase in auxiliary battery capacity, but more importantly, the Optima is far more suited to the charging algorithms of a D3 and D4.
That battery you have, comes with a specific warning not to boost charge it and thats exactly what a D3 and D4 does.2008 TDV8 RR Lux + 2009 D4 2.7
12th Jun 2015 11:00 pm
Streffie
Member Since: 30 Mar 2014
Location: Midlands
Posts: 171
I must have missed this, where does it say about boost charging ?
12th Jun 2015 11:45 pm
drivesafe
Member Since: 23 Feb 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 867
Hi again Streffie, here a link.
They are talking about charging with a battery charger, but LRs also boost charge.
They don’t supply enough spec info but many AGMs are limited to a maximum charge voltage of 14.4v and some will tolerate 14.7v, while an Optima will handle 15.1v, but it’s not unusual for a D3 and D4 to go to 15.5v2008 TDV8 RR Lux + 2009 D4 2.7
13th Jun 2015 12:23 am
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Streffie wrote:
I must have missed this, where does it say about boost charging ?
When it is really cold your MY13 D4 will output up to 14.7v. In typical UK temps it will be around 14.4v, but if we ever see a decent hot summer it could be around 14.2v. These controlled voltages vs temperature are specifically set in order to protect AGM batteries.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 23 Feb 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 867
Yes Robbie, the later D4s with AGM cranking batteries do run at a low maximum voltage but if you care to read some of the posts on this site, you will see some much higher voltages being stated.
Again, Optima batteries are much better suited and give at least 70% increase in auxiliary battery capacity and you can also add the fact that an Optima has the ability to SAFELY take all the available charge current the D4 can produce.
Many AGMs are limited to around a recharge capacity of around 35% of their total Ah capacity, and again, there are no specs on how much charge current can be used with these batteries.
Also as mentioned before, the other battery has no relevant info about whether it can actually be used as a deep cycle battery as it is specifically marketed as a cranking battery.
While all cranking batteries can be cycled in auxiliary battery type situations, many CRANKING batteries have limitation when used in cyclic operations.
Limitations like depth of discharge, most should not be discharged below 40% SoC, while all modern Deep Cycle batteries can be safely discharged to 20% SoC and an Optima can be discharged to 0% SoC.
Being as no relevant info is available regarding specs for these batteries and specifically how they would be handling being used in a cyclic situation, the moving of a few parts in the auxiliary battery compartment to allow for the use of a genuine deep cycle battery would seem to be the wisest way to set up a dual battery system in a D4.
So the suggestion has been put foreword, to help Steffie improve his setup, but Robbie, if you think the additional size and known safeguards are unnecessary, each unto his own.2008 TDV8 RR Lux + 2009 D4 2.7
13th Jun 2015 10:03 am
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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The charging strategy and limits are controlled by the PCM and are selectable CCF parameters (from memory there are 4 charging strategies available on the MY13). The MY13 D4 CCF is set at initial build to the voltage levels I have quoted above. I have never seen a normal D4 exceed the limits set by the PCM / CCF.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 23 Feb 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 867
OK Robbie, as already stated, there are no specs available for the battery, as to know whether it can safely tolerate 14.7v.
I have not worked on the electrics of a motor bike for at least twenty years but to my knowledge, and some one please correct me here if I am wrong, but motor bike alternators still operate at around 14.0v to 14.3v and as such, any AGM cranking battery can safely be used.
Again, there are no specs on whether there are charge current limits, so can these batteries be safely charge will the high currents available from a D4 alternator?
An Optima can safely draw 100+ amps from a D4’s alternator if the Optima is in a low state, what is the specs for that battery if it is in a low state.
Remember, this battery is being marketed as a cranking battery so under normal operation, after starting a bike motor, even if the battery is down a bit, it is unlikely draw more than 5 amps after starting a motor.
In a deep cycle situation, and again, we do not know how low the battery can safely be discharged but for the benefit of longevity, say it is discharged down to no lower than 40% SoC, it could easily draw 15+ amps from a D4 supplying a charge voltage of 14.7v., but again, with no specs available, if this is like most AGMs, then it has a maximum charge current tolerance of around 10 amps.
Do you know something about these batteries that is not displayed on their web site?2008 TDV8 RR Lux + 2009 D4 2.7
13th Jun 2015 11:47 am
drivesafe
Member Since: 23 Feb 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 867
Hi again Steffie, and if you like using these batteries, why not send MotoBatt an e-mail and ask if they can provide you with more specific info about the specs for the battery you are using.
See if they can provide you with info relating to their recommended maximum depth of discharge and whether they can tolerate voltages over 15.0v.
While Robbie is correct about his D4 not charging over 14.7v but this only relates to late model D4s which are equipped with AGM cranking batteries.
There are at least two other charging algorithms used in D4s, and these are for D4s equipped with Calcium/Calcium cranking batteries.
The earlier 3lt D4s have there specific charging algorithms and the 2.7lt D4s actually have a similar, if not the same charging algorithms as a D3.
Both of these earlier versions can operate above 15.0v at times.
So it might be advisable to cover what you are doing by getting the correct specs for those batteries.2008 TDV8 RR Lux + 2009 D4 2.7
13th Jun 2015 7:27 pm
Streffie
Member Since: 30 Mar 2014
Location: Midlands
Posts: 171
As for your last but one post drive safe, I can correct you on that, as that's my trade, later charging systems on piaggio group bikes, Moto Guzzi, Aprilia, charge up to 15v, especially on the Norge, stelvio and new V7 MK2, and we fit these batteries to the bikes that are used to travel to the nordcap, we contacted motobatt who confirmed that this would not be an issue, and can in fact cope with 18v before damage will occur.
This is by no means a big leisure battery, I'm not no concerned really with the life of the battery, as it will only run 2 fridges during engine off time on occasions when aboard ferries or rest times, having used these batteries on applications eg mower, and motor cycle starter rollers, they have stood up very well, so I thought I've give it a try on this application.
Below is spec on battery,
Last edited by Streffie on 14th Jun 2015 1:13 pm. Edited 1 time in total
13th Jun 2015 10:48 pm
drivesafe
Member Since: 23 Feb 2006
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 867
Hi Streffie and thanks for the spec sheet.
While I can’t open that from your post, I did find it on their web site ( just in case others can't open it, try the web site ).
And according to that sheet, it can be used as a leisure battery and would suit what you are using it for.2008 TDV8 RR Lux + 2009 D4 2.7
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but with some Ecu moving you can get a yellow top in there.
