Member Since: 05 Jan 2013
Location: York
Posts: 709
HPFP Replacement
Hi All,
I've had a route around on here and I haven't found a full answer to my question below.
My Disco 3 that I bought in February has a suspected ed HPFP. It belches smoke out under load and hard acceleration but is generally good and MPG is on par. My local LR indy diagnosed the fault as all 6 injector offset values are constantly all over the place and they have said that is due to the HPFP.
Questions -
I have done 12k in it (currently on 131k), the most likely issue is that the previous owner put petrol in it. Should I try to get this fixed ASAP or when I can afford to - will continuing to drive it the engine?
Should I either have the injectors refurbished/tested/cleaned or just leave them and hope that just doing the pump is enough? Could leaving them damage the new pump?
I'm pretty technically minded, is changing the pump a hard job? I've looked in to it and it doesn't seem to phase me really. Would any of you just crack on with it?
Thanks in advance
Cheers
Will26 and on the 4th LR..
Series 2a 1963 88'' 2.25 Derv as original with Galv chassis
Disco 1 1996 V8 on LPG (sold now)
Disco 3 2005 TDV6 S (sold now)
Disco 4 MY15 XS Commercial
5th Oct 2013 6:06 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Did they graph the HPFP output pressure itself as the injectors may be trying to compensate for something else?
The trouble with a petrol misfuel is that all the fuel components tend to get fragged. Repairing a damaged engine post-misfuel is eye-wateringly expensive. Unfortunately people have been known to offload the car quickly following such an event. It is why I would never buy a secondhand D3/D4 without a HawkEye or multi-vehicle MSV to check all the fuel system pressures.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20732
If the injector offsets are all over the place, it tends to be down to injectors, or compression...
If it was fuel pressure, I would expect ESF issues.
Injector issues would cause lumpy idle, smoke, sometimes poor starting etc
Remote diagnostics are not a definate, but going on the info provided, I would not be replacing an HPFP. I would be more inclined to look at the injectors, especially at 130k milesMy D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 05 Jan 2013
Location: York
Posts: 709
No graphing was done. He suggested I could take off the fuel filter and pour the contents in to a clear glass container and in a dark room shine a bright torch in to it to see if there are any shiny bits of mental in it... He offered to do it but I'd have to pay so I'll do it next time I'm under it.
I got a quote from TLO for £567.00 for the pump which is manageable... I think!26 and on the 4th LR..
Series 2a 1963 88'' 2.25 Derv as original with Galv chassis
Disco 1 1996 V8 on LPG (sold now)
Disco 3 2005 TDV6 S (sold now)
Disco 4 MY15 XS Commercial
5th Oct 2013 6:36 pm
will247
Member Since: 05 Jan 2013
Location: York
Posts: 709
Cheers Disco Mikey,
No ESF issues - ever.
I do have tough cold morning starts from time to time and it can idol pretty rough sometimes plus the smoke mentioned in my initial post (the smoke is black btw)
I think based on your advise I will take out the injectors and send them off to be tested, I found a guy called diesel bob who will do them for £10.00 each. An additional twist to this is I have 6 'used spares' I bought off ebay and I will send all 12 to him for testing and find out which are good/bad/ ed!
My biggest concern with doing it this way round is that if the pump is ed then it may fill the cleaned and tested injectors with bits of pump....26 and on the 4th LR..
Series 2a 1963 88'' 2.25 Derv as original with Galv chassis
Disco 1 1996 V8 on LPG (sold now)
Disco 3 2005 TDV6 S (sold now)
Disco 4 MY15 XS Commercial
5th Oct 2013 6:41 pm
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20732
Be aware of having the injectors tested. I had a set of 6 sent away for testing once.
Issues with the car were smoking, and starting, and cutting out straight away. Injector compensations were all over the place, as well as some injector restricted codes.
They were all removed, and sent away. They all flowed correctly, and all within 0.002mm of each other, and all with a good spray pattern. The company testing them said they were all perfect...
The symptoms were relayed to them, who retested, again, all were fine, but they stripped the injector down, and found the needles were all badly worn.
Net result was 6 new injectors, but these cured all the above issues.
Be aware, that once new injectors are fitted, you need to drive the car for around 30 miles or so, to allow the PCM to re-learn its adaptions
I would imagine the same company could also test, or refurbish the HPFP if sent to them at the same timeMy D3 Build Thread
Last edited by Disco_Mikey on 6th Oct 2013 8:44 am. Edited 1 time in total
5th Oct 2013 8:32 pm
will247
Member Since: 05 Jan 2013
Location: York
Posts: 709
Cheers for the tip.
The price I have from him is to strip all 12 and find the best ones. I will clarify with him though! I also think he has quoted for new injectors but that seems to have vanished from my mind... must be too many numbers for my memory to hold!26 and on the 4th LR..
Series 2a 1963 88'' 2.25 Derv as original with Galv chassis
Disco 1 1996 V8 on LPG (sold now)
Disco 3 2005 TDV6 S (sold now)
Disco 4 MY15 XS Commercial
5th Oct 2013 8:35 pm
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20732
LRDirect sell recon injectors now, via Britpart. Come boxed as VDO units. £180 + VAT each, ish
Fitted 13 to various D3's so far, and only had 1 faulty one leak fuel from the top part of the injector. Got another one, swapped it over, and no issues with it since My D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 05 Jan 2013
Location: York
Posts: 709
Just noticed that you have a picture of the offsets on your gallery mikey, I'm hoping one of mine will show up...!
Click image to enlarge
26 and on the 4th LR..
Series 2a 1963 88'' 2.25 Derv as original with Galv chassis
Disco 1 1996 V8 on LPG (sold now)
Disco 3 2005 TDV6 S (sold now)
Disco 4 MY15 XS Commercial
5th Oct 2013 10:20 pm
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20732
1200 isnt ideal, but not that bad. Ideally you need them checked when hot and cold, to see if they are worse at any point.My D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Book figures are 960 to 1400 but don't presume that the ones showing above or below these limits are at fault as they could be compensating for something else. Only reject an injector if a spill test shows it to be significantly different to the others. Fuel pressure and temperature will cause variations in the values shown.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 05 Jan 2013
Location: York
Posts: 709
I did do a spill test a while ago and the cylinder nearest the steering wheel was higher than the other 5 by a hefty margin. What number does that relate to on the offset display?
The snap on code reader is mine so I will try and do a cold and hot set of offset readings. As said previously they are constantly all over the place....
Fault codes are generally a mixture of every Cylinder # Balance - Fuel Trim At Maximum Limit and the same but minimum limit. Codes of P029E, P02A7, P02AE, P02AA, P02A2 and so on...26 and on the 4th LR..
Series 2a 1963 88'' 2.25 Derv as original with Galv chassis
Disco 1 1996 V8 on LPG (sold now)
Disco 3 2005 TDV6 S (sold now)
Disco 4 MY15 XS Commercial
6th Oct 2013 11:22 am
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Disco_Mikey wrote:
600 to 1400, with 1000 being ideal
Interesting spread of figures out there. The figures I gave were LR figures for MY05 and on checking the latest 2.7 figures for the D4 LR now quote 700 to 1300.
Anyway, the relative spread between cylinders is the interesting part of the figures to tell you something is unusual. The trick is to find out why the system is doing it.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 05 Jan 2013
Location: York
Posts: 709
Robbie,
I think that is why the indy ended up saying it was the HPFP. I may try what they suggested and drain the filter in to a container and see if I can see any iron filings... Don't know if I can muster up the energy for getting myself marinated in diesel today!26 and on the 4th LR..
Series 2a 1963 88'' 2.25 Derv as original with Galv chassis
Disco 1 1996 V8 on LPG (sold now)
Disco 3 2005 TDV6 S (sold now)
Disco 4 MY15 XS Commercial
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
ed HPFP. It belches smoke out under load and hard acceleration but is generally good and MPG is on par. My local LR indy diagnosed the fault as all 6 injector offset values are constantly all over the place and they have said that is due to the HPFP.
