Or, of course, it could be that when they were here, European workers each ate the equivalent of fourteen UK pigs a year and that pig production hasn't adjusted to their absence.
2015 Volvo V40
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4th Oct 2021 7:43 am
JordsDisco
Member Since: 22 May 2020
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 1489
That makes some sort of sense and why Lidl promote Pork at every given opportunity. You’ve nailed it.
4th Oct 2021 7:46 am
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23370
There is an insufficient labour pool to call upon to fill these vacancies. As was predicted.
2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography
Last edited by LT on 4th Oct 2021 6:06 pm. Edited 1 time in total
4th Oct 2021 7:46 am
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13912
galwaygreen wrote:
shortage of workers...more like media hype...if it wasnt on the news you wouldnt know about it...like power cuts..... happen some places ,,,not in others...sorted locally ,,,move on,,,kick on
The media has just reported the problem - its not a conspiracy. And yes you would know it if it wasn't reported. Just look at the empty shelves or the shorter opening hours and reduced days that restaurants and bars have resorted to becuase of staff levels. Those are just two tell tale signs that are immediatly noticeable.
As for Brexit, yes it is casusing a shortage of skilled workers. I work in a high skill and knowledge industry that is very high wage and all its done to us is add significant cost and create project delays becuase of paperwork and lack of ability to recruit in the UK. We've countered this by opening up offices, manufactoring and R&D in the EU to get around this. Thats jobs and tax take thats no longer going to the UK. Also any additional costs get passed to the customer. In the UK, thats the NHS and you the tax payer.
Anyway, thats for another thread. New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
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4th Oct 2021 7:57 am
highlands
Member Since: 11 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
Posts: 5095
Just had a look at jobs for meat processing plants and they seem to be long hours in cold conditions for £9-£12 per hour. I imagine lorry driving looks pretty attractive compared to that.
Are these not jobs that should be automated or haven't we reached the 21st Century yet?
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13108
A huge number of jobs can be automated meaning very few people need to be employed - a boon for some. That's a great idea for businesses, until they remember that people have to have jobs in order to have money to buy the things the businesses sell. Oops.
We could quite easily have a world where unemployment levels are at 90% with just the 10% being the people that exist purely to make sure the robots are designed, built and serviced correctly. Oh, and some people to police the other people, of course.
Of course, we'd have to do away with money in a such a society, so I don't see it catching on anytime soon.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
4th Oct 2021 2:17 pm
highlands
Member Since: 11 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
Posts: 5095
Apparently we don't have enough people in the UK willing to work in a fridge chopping up pigs for £9 an hour, so maybe we should follow the Danish example and automate most of the process rather than relying on lots of cheap labour from abroad?Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
Grey 05 TDV6 HSE Auto (Gone)
54 TDV6 SE Man (killed by me )
4th Oct 2021 3:07 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23370
I assume then that you would also disapprove of those born in the Highlands seeking employment in England, where obviously there are greater job opportunities?2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography
4th Oct 2021 3:24 pm
highlands
Member Since: 11 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
Posts: 5095
Why would I?
We are part of the United Kingdom. We are one country.
I'm not sure why you'd assume that I would be disapproving.
Anyway, I'm not sure the proportionate job opportunities are now higher in England than the Highlands.
We've had 2 new sites locally that have provided well paid jobs equivalent to about 10% of the entire population within the last couple of years.
We've got a nearly £1 billion energy project being developed down the road with plenty of well paid roles available.
Population growth has been much higher here than Scotland as a whole and similar to the levels in England.
I have a brother-in-law in London and a friend locally who are both sparkies with quite a few decades of experience and the availability of work and pay for it is probably as high, if not higher, locally than for London and with a much higher quality of life, subjectively.
Similar for most trades I reckon.
For my type of work I have to travel further afield but I'm not looking to undercut anyone!
The issue with mass migration from C&EE was the huge number of people willing to work for relatively very little money distorting the domestic labour market.Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
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54 TDV6 SE Man (killed by me )
4th Oct 2021 3:52 pm
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13108
Quote:
The issue with mass migration from C&EE was the huge number of people willing to work for relatively very little money distorting the domestic labour market.
But if they're doing jobs that the local labour force aren't interested in, why is it a problem? It frees up the local labour force to do nicer jobs that they want to do instead.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
4th Oct 2021 4:06 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23370
Highlands- So you are happy for "cheap labour" from the Highlands & Islands to go England, but oppose foreigners coming to Scotland to work in jobs that the local population are either untrained or unwilling (as per your post ref. local job vacancies in meat production) to do.
Indeed, you would prefer to see the work automated, rather than allow foreigners to be given the chance to to earn a living for themselves and provide for their families.
"Mass migration distorting the domestic labour market"-really?
You will recall from the Brexit thread, which unsurprisingly you no longer participate in, that the UK was free to implement the strict control policy as it saw fit, and yet it did not, while other EU member countries – including Belgium and Italy – use this legislation to repatriate thousands of EU migrants each year.
Despite this failure and therefore mismanaged EU Freedom of Movement (FOM), the UK unemployment rate just before the ending of EU FOM was at it's lowest level since 1975 and had fallen consistently since 2011 (see graph below).
Can you see the correlation between this fact and the fact that since the end of EU FOM, the sectors that had relied on workers from our neighbouring EU countries are now struggling to find employees from the domestic labour market?
2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography
Last edited by LT on 4th Oct 2021 5:16 pm. Edited 1 time in total
4th Oct 2021 4:30 pm
JordsDisco
Member Since: 22 May 2020
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 1489
Isn’t Highlands an English migrant who’s now more Scottish than a born Scot?
Not slagging you off, just most of your posts contain something pertaining to the West Coast of Scotland.
You can’t deny others the right to something you’ve taken advantage of?
4th Oct 2021 4:56 pm
highlands
Member Since: 11 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
Posts: 5095
LT wrote:
Highlands- So you are happy for "cheap labour" from the Highlands & Islands to go England
Where do you have evidence that there is cheap labour going from the H&I to England?
LT wrote:
, but oppose foreigners coming to Scotland to work in jobs that the local population are either untrained or unwilling (as per your post ref. local job vacancies in meat production) to do.
I don't oppose foreigners coming to Scotland to work.
I do believe that migration does need to be managed however.
LT wrote:
Indeed, you would prefer to see the work automated, rather than allow foreigners to be given the chance to to earn a living for themselves and provide for their families.
I think it makes sense to have low value jobs automated in the move towards having a higher value, higher skilled, higher waged economy.
Most of the meat processing jobs seem to be below the 'living wage' hence they would seem to make sense to automate. In previous jobs I've employed teams of software developers and engineers from C&EE at higher than UK LW - maybe those who would be chopping up pigs will end up programming the robots that chop up pigs a'la Mr. Bucket and the toothpaste robots!
LT wrote:
"Mass migration distorting the domestic labour market"-really?
Really.
Have you noticed how much better paid HGV drivers are now? My brother has.
I'm not against migration.
I'm against uncontrolled migration.
Most of the world manages migration. I think they have a point.
p.s. I'm not a migrant. Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
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54 TDV6 SE Man (killed by me )
4th Oct 2021 5:54 pm
highlands
Member Since: 11 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
Posts: 5095
JordsDisco wrote:
You can’t deny others the right to something you’ve taken advantage of?
Do you think everyone from wherever in the world should be allowed unfettered freedom to live and work in the UK?
How do you think that would work out?Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
Grey 05 TDV6 HSE Auto (Gone)
54 TDV6 SE Man (killed by me )
4th Oct 2021 6:18 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23370
Where do you have evidence that there is cheap labour going from the H&I to England?
I have personal evidence from visiting many islands over the years that young people move to the mainland and England for a change in lifestyle and often work in low paid jobs.
I was on Arran, Islay and Jura this August and met people who had done this themselves and who's children who had also done this, mainly working in the hospitality sector. Although by strange coincidence one had worked as a nursery (plant) worker, where my sister in law works. Small world!
I also know of a local waitress who, some 30 years ago now, when aged 17 ran away from her very bigoted, evangelical family.
Whilst I haven't looked for any statistics, if indeed any exist, I would be surprised if these are unique examples.
I don't oppose foreigners coming to Scotland to work. I do believe that migration does need to be managed however.
You will recall from the Brexit thread, which unsurprisingly you no longer participate in, that the UK was free to implement the strict control policy as it saw fit, and yet it did not, while other EU member countries – including Belgium and Italy – use this legislation to repatriate thousands of EU migrants each year.
Despite this failure and therefore mismanaged EU Freedom of Movement (FOM), the UK unemployment rate just before the ending of EU FOM was at it's lowest level since 1975 and had fallen consistently since 2011 (see graph below).
Can you see the correlation between this fact and the fact that since the end of EU FOM, the sectors that had relied on workers from our neighbouring EU countries are now struggling to find employees from the domestic labour market?
I think it makes sense to have low value jobs automated in the move towards having a higher value, higher skilled, higher waged economy. Most of the meat processing jobs seem to be below the 'living wage' hence they would seem to make sense to automate.
So you would prefer to see the work automated, rather than allow foreigners who would pay tax and help support the local communities, to be given the chance to to earn a living for themselves and provide for their families. Hmm!
Really. Have you noticed how much better paid HGV drivers are now? My brother has.
I have indeed noticed that HGV drivers have become better paid. This is in a bid to attract them from other employees due to a shortage of UK HGV drivers. NOT as a result of higher productivity.
I am well aware of the economic pitfalls of rising wages due to labour shortages rather than as a result of increase productivity and economic growth. Are you?
2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography
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