J@mes wrote:

exactly how many people do you think this will affect though?

I think an awful lot of people have had their engine remapped. I appreciate that this is beer talk info ( 90 ) but if the car is being returned to build spec, then logically I assume that includes the engine map too.

wiggs wrote:

"hacking" of files....you means switching on something thats already there

PaulP wrote:

Yep - many products are sold like this - mainly software, but not cars.

There is no EULA or similar when you buy a car - once you buy it, it is yours to do with as you please although doing so may invalidate your warranty, there is absolutely no legal requirement to not do as you please with your vehicle.

Note that a warranty does not mean that a dealer can exercise any form of right to modify your vehicle's features - the warranty is your legal right to get them to fix/correct things on the vehicle, not the other way around.

If a dealer overwrote my CCF and disabled a load of things without informing me, then I would have them (and LR) in court. (note that I don't have sat nav anyway, so it's largely irrelevant).

There is no safety issue in what Wiggs or anyone else is doing by enabling 4x4 info - it is not necessary to touch the TC or ABS software at any moment.

Lots of cars are not at build-spec after a couple of years (tow-bar enabled, PDC disabled for winch, language changed, user-configuration etc), so I see no reason why they would want to rewrite the build spec of any vehicle....

Mac wrote:

They used the explanation of the check in sheet to the fact that people were begining to enhance their vehicles to the detrement of their dealerships

That's a bit scary Mac and it does sound somewhat unfair and also show a rather blinkered approach to customers modifying their vehicles to be exactly how they (the customer) wants them....

I'm glad you found a more sensible dealer in the end

Hi Mikeyp

mikeyp wrote:

Granted, the EULAs in the Nav manual don't appear to have anything to do with the 4x4 info. However, Page 24 of the Nav manual states "The Off Road Navigation button will only be displayed if the enhanced navigation option is part of your vehicle specification".

As I don't have LR Sat Nav I've never noticed this, but as you say they are nothing to do with the enabling or otherwise of vehicle functions - rather the reverse engineering of propietary software (I believe the software itself comes from Navteq and maybe Denso but not sure about this.

Either way, a EULA requires acknowledgement of the end user before it becomes enforceable and in this case there is none.

Regarding page 24, this is just correctly explains why the button would/wouldn't be visible on certain nav screens rather than giving them a legal "right" to disable things at a later date.

I don't think it gives a dealer any argument to disable 4x4 info and anyway as far as I know, IDS does not have the facility to enable/disable the 4x4 info anyway at present.

My local dealer was a bit miffed when I put AT2 tyres on mine - nothing to do with it being a change of spec, but rather because I didn't pay almost double to get the tyres from them

Using the rationale of them losing money in a sale, how much do you think a dealer gets from the 508 GBP? Probably very little so it shouldn't be enough to worry them

I can understand why dealers would get upset if a modification causes a fault or something to go wrong that you then expect them to fix, but in this case, activating the 4x4 info screen doesn't really fall under this scenario.

On the other hand, we have to consider that the activation of the 4x4 info is but a drop in the ocean compared to remapping the engine...

I've had my engine mapping reset during a service as they updated the EMS software - they didn't do it intentionally, but as they didn't know it was remapped, they had no reason to mention it to me anyway.

Remapping is (in my opinion) something that could really cause a loss in revenue (i.e. if I couldn't afford a TDV8 RRS, then a remapped TDV6 D3 although not in the same league is still much better than a standard TDV6 and may allow for a compromise without spending another 20,000 GBP....), however, no-one seems worried about this. Remember that a vehicle is "legally" type-approved based upon the emissions/power that an engine produces and remapping effectively changes all of this

We'll just have to see how things go over the next year or two with regards to IDS and LR's intentions, but opinions apart, I think this is an interesting discussion point

EDIT: speaking of opinions, I should say that mine is based upon having a D3 that is well outside of warranty and therefore I guess it makes my views different to someone with a newer vehicle