Member Since: 18 Sep 2007
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 91
My FBH also isn't working.
I'm not a techie at all and have read the above a few times. From what I can tell it looks like all I need to do is purchase a USB OBDII lead from the well known auction site - I assume any one (the cheapest) as they all must do the same thing. Download the file from the Webatso website. Plug in lead to car and laptop, run the software and I will then be able to see fault codes and clear them? Start car up and FBH will as long as there isn't a larger problem work?
Is it that easy? For about £15 delivered you can get the lead.
So is it worth a try? And are any of the OBD leads OK? Most mention VAG vehicles and only LR in the main body of the ad. Will they work with the D3?
I assume that I need to get a move on with this as when the temp is above 5c it won't work. Or does this programme also force fire the FBH?
Many thanks if somebody will clarify.
2nd Mar 2010 12:16 pm
mattgreen
Member Since: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Worksop
Posts: 211
Hi "MCB",
I think you've mostly got it right - the only extra thing you'll need to do, according to IanNP, is modify the OBD connector to plug directly into the data bus on the FBH itself (as opposed to plugging it into the general bus on the car).
I think he said he was going to post some diagrams of the "wiring loom" he made.
"Rannila" posted a link to a Webasto heater test lead which looks like 3 bare wires and a OBD plug. I guess you could buy this lead and poke the bare ends into the relevant socket on the FBH.
Matt
2nd Mar 2010 12:53 pm
IanNP
Member Since: 17 Aug 2009
Location: Lancashire, Chorley ..ish
Posts: 204
So far so good.
This morning 2deg and the FBH worked spot on. 1.5 miles down the road and the temp guage at normal and everything toasty warm
Matt you are correct the ODBII plug MUST NOT be plugged into the Disc3 Diag socket. That would not be good. I have some pics of what to do with that.
Here are some pics of a run cycle from cold.
Provided your battery is good you do not need to run the engine to be able to use the PC Prog. Though if you are in any doubt do the diag with the engine running, in which case start the engine before running the PC Prog. Other than the initial current draw of the 'glow plug' the running draw is a few amps. The FBH will automatically shut off at 10/10.5 volts anyway.
This is with the Disco CAN Bus not connected.
Remember when connecting/disconnecting the Land Rover FBH plug the vehicle must be asleep.
This takes around 10mins from removing the ignition key. Radio display off, handbrake light off
This is the inital start up:
Glow cycle complete fuel is pumpped in that should ignite:
Combustion is success full:
Burner runs at full load coolant at 65deg:
temp guage at 65deg:
Burner running at full load coolant at 80deg:
temp guage at 80deg:
Burner running at full load switching to part load @88deg:
temp guage at 88deg:
Now I have started a shut down - diesel pump is stopped and any fuel left is burnt:
Cooling fan continues to run ntil FBH is cool:
FBH shuts down:
This was the error that I got when the disco3 ran the FBH:
This error caused a lockout. So the FBH would not restart until the fault code was cleared.
Removing the power, disconnecting the battery will not clear the fault.
I am still unsure of the STFL error - especially as all I did was leave the vehicle overnight and the error never reoccured.
I will be interested to see what other poeples faults are.
What will be the most common reason for the FBH locking out I wounder!
2nd Mar 2010 11:23 pm
gingerpig
Member Since: 16 Feb 2010
Location: warminster, wilts
Posts: 20
Ian good work ,why is flame detector reading omhs all the time, should this not be switched as well, other wise program will think there is a flame. or is this ment to be so flame detector is active all the time for safty. just a thought.
tony
3rd Mar 2010 9:08 am
IanNP
Member Since: 17 Aug 2009
Location: Lancashire, Chorley ..ish
Posts: 204
Hi gingerpig
The resistance of the flamedetect is used to workout if the fuel has ignited and what the burner is up to.
The lower the temp the higher the resistance:
0.9R seems to be no flame but glow plug on
0.65R Full load burn
0.75R Part Load
There will be a flame fail resistance as well that will be .8R or higher .. I am guessing at that though.
Ian..so what can I fiddle with today that ain't broken ...?
Matt you are correct the ODBII plug MUST NOT be plugged into the Disc3 Diag socket. That would not be good. I have some pics of what to do with that.
This is with the Disco CAN Bus not connected.
Are some pics missing, ie how do you connect to the FBH?
Great work Volvo XC60 - does all that the D4 should have done
Discovery HSE MY16 (good apart from the heating), now sold
Audi TT Roadster (wow)
MGB Roadster (owned since 1992)
Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE MY08
Saab 9-5 Aero 2002 (gone but not forgotten)
3rd Mar 2010 3:50 pm
IanNP
Member Since: 17 Aug 2009
Location: Lancashire, Chorley ..ish
Posts: 204
Hi JDHX.
I have more pics of the connections to the ODBII, FBH etc.
I am just sorting them and will post them tomorrow.
I was going to sort them and post them this evening but a comp I was at went on longer than I thought
Ian..so what can I fiddle with today that ain't broken ...?
3rd Mar 2010 11:28 pm
mattgreen
Member Since: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Worksop
Posts: 211
Latest in my FBH saga:-
The kind Mr Wiggs assisted with his Faultmate and primed the FBH which resulted in nice plumes of smoke etc and the FBH did start several times under control of the car itself - no lockouts or faults reported. There were no faults prior to the priming so the priming itself may have cleared a blockage or similar.
That evening all was fine when starting at about 2℃ and cold engine - again, smoke seen and engine up to temperature in < 1 mile.
Next day, same again, worked fine. This morning some smoke seen and hot exhaust felt...however, I spent the day in quarry on a RAYNET exercise so on several occasions had to start the vehicle to prevent 3yr old son and dog from going hypothermic - sadly FBH decided not to play despite 3℃ max and engine well below running temperature. It amazing but at tickover the 2.7 TDV6 engine will only just get the temp needle moving off the bottom.
I've got the cable on order and will start probing and monitoring the FBH closely.
7th Mar 2010 12:58 am
IanNP
Member Since: 17 Aug 2009
Location: Lancashire, Chorley ..ish
Posts: 204
Slightly later than expected here are some more pics of the connections etc.
I made up two short looms. I wanted to be able to run the FBH with and without the Vehicle CAN bus.
If you leave the Vehicle CAN bus connected it will try and interfere with the Webasto PC programme.
As you will see I can disconnect it!
This is a power loom. The ODBII interface requires power from the vehicle to power the K-Bus electronics
This loom clips directly onto the vehicle battery so put a 1amp fuse as close to the +12v as you can.
+12v is the BLUE arrow. 1Amp fuse is RED arrow. Gnd is GREEN arrow
This is an 'off the shelf' ODBII interface. It supports simply K-Bus and L-Bus.
We are only interested in the K_Bus - pin 7, 12v Battery feed - pin 16, Ground - pin 5.
This shows the wire in place. Brown = 12v into the ODBII Interface. Red = K-Bus. Black = GND.
Click image to enlarge
This is the FBH.
BEFORE disconnecting either of the connectors on the FBH make sure the vehicle is asleep. The radio display must be off and the handbrake warning light must also be off. You must do this everytime you plug or unplug the CAN bus.
GREEN arrowed plug contains the FBH coolant pump wires. RED arrowed plug contains the W_Bus, CAN bus and aux diesel pump wires . It unplugs by releasing the plastic lock arms either side. BLUE arrowed plug contains the 12vfeed and GND to the FBH. This unplugs by releasing the plastic lock arm on the right side. The Disco3 is a perfect fit!
My loom in situe.
Red is the Land Rover loom, Green is my loom.
Note the Blue wire is the only wire plugged into the Land Rover loom. This is the FBH Diesel pump wire and has to be connected through.
A closer view of the FBH Diesel pump wire.
So with everything connected time to see if the thing works.
I wont go in to how you set up the Webasto prog, but make sure you set the com port the USB takes to match the com port the PC Prog uses.
If people struggle then I can post how to set it up ..?
Run the PC prog
Connect the 12v to the FBH
select W_Bus as the FBH type from the drop down menu and the PC prog should display the FBH overview window.
Read any faults in the FBH - worth printing the faults out and letting us all know what they are!
Start the engine just in case you vehicle battery isn't that well charged ..
Clear the faults and run the FBH by selecting 'parking heater'.
The PC prog will run the FBH until it reaches max temp. It then goes into 'supplemental heater' mode.
When you are finished click 'OFF'. The FBH then starts to shut down. Wait for the PC Prog status to say 'OFF' before unplugging anything.
If the FBH hasn't been run for a while or has had a number of faults on startup or you prime it then you will probably find it gets a bit foggy as the excess diesel fuel is burnt.
I took this pic as the fog dies down.
This is the exhaust on start up . . . .
Once you are happy then you can try giving control back to the Disco by connecting the CAN bus wires.
This will only work though if the outside temp is 5deg or below - have a look on the dash display!
Remeber the vehicle must be asleep before connecting the CAN wires.
FBH Diesel pump BLUE arrow. CAN wires RED arrow. Make sure that the CAN wires are connected the correct way arround. It would not be good to connect them incorrectly.
A closer view of the FBH with the CAN wires connected.
This is a schematic I have put together of the wiring for the various connectors.
Click image to enlarge
The exhaust of the FBH gets very, very, very hot. I have a few singes to show for my efforts .. stay clear of it and make sure no wires are hanging around it.
Here is a Video of the FBH running.
This is a video of Wiggs priming his FBH with the faultmate
If anyone requires any further info then PM me...so what can I fiddle with today that ain't broken ...?
7th Mar 2010 2:15 am
mattgreen
Member Since: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Worksop
Posts: 211
Ian,
thanks for the very detailed pics, guide and info...
Is there a ready source of spare FBH plugs around or did you jut get it from a scrap yard?
Just awaiting my ODB interface.
Matt
7th Mar 2010 10:36 pm
IanNP
Member Since: 17 Aug 2009
Location: Lancashire, Chorley ..ish
Posts: 204
mattgreen wrote:
Ian,
thanks for the very detailed pics, guide and info...
Is there a ready source of spare FBH plugs around or did you jut get it from a scrap yard?
Just awaiting my ODB interface.
Matt
I have a few of the plugs left over from a previous project.
The connector is made by 'Tyco' (part no:1-967369-1) but it is a special either made for Land Rover or Webasto. I can't remember where we got them from ..!
You could make a much simpler loom - just connect into the Disco FBH plug.
If the external temp is above 5deg the CAN bus won't interfere and the PC Prog will work OK.
If the temp is 5deg or below then the disco CAN bus will give commands to the FBH which doen't do anything any damage it just gets confusing when you tell FHB to turn on and the disco tells it to turn off!!
If you need the inserts for the FBH I do have those.
Ian..so what can I fiddle with today that ain't broken ...?
7th Mar 2010 11:54 pm
MCB
Member Since: 18 Sep 2007
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 91
Many thanks to IanNP who plugged my D3 into his computer and cleared the fault codes and got the FBH to work this morning.
Also for supplying one of his looms which I would never have been able to make up for if it happens again. Already downloaded the Webasto programme. So if it happens again I am ready. Looking forward to starting the car in the morning and hoping it's cold so I can see if it works. Sad I know but thats what a none working FBH can do to someone...
11th Mar 2010 10:27 pm
mattgreen
Member Since: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Worksop
Posts: 211
My ODB interface has now arrived. I'm just off to Maplin to get some pins and plugs and heat-shrink sleeving so I can make up the wiring loom and get testing.
IanNP - I'm happy to purchase from you any of the relevant plug parts...
I've added some Redex into the fuel tank as the symptom I have is that after priming the FBH works ok "for a while" i.e. 2 days but seems to not get to full heat. Then it stops working so I presume it's a flame or flame sensor problem or a glow plug problem which a bit of Redex can't harm...
I will be able to see when exactly in the cycle it fails once I'm wired in.
16th Mar 2010 1:21 pm
Matty 2332
Member Since: 02 Dec 2008
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 670
Keeping everything crossed for you Matt
16th Mar 2010 5:03 pm
IanNP
Member Since: 17 Aug 2009
Location: Lancashire, Chorley ..ish
Posts: 204
mattgreen wrote:
My ODB interface has now arrived. I'm just off to Maplin to get some pins and plugs and heat-shrink sleeving so I can make up the wiring loom and get testing.
IanNP - I'm happy to purchase from you any of the relevant plug parts...
I've added some Redex into the fuel tank as the symptom I have is that after priming the FBH works ok "for a while" i.e. 2 days but seems to not get to full heat. Then it stops working so I presume it's a flame or flame sensor problem or a glow plug problem which a bit of Redex can't harm...
I will be able to see when exactly in the cycle it fails once I'm wired in.
No one has yet posted any feedback of using the Webasto prog and the reported faults.
I have tried the PC prog on four vehicles and all four FBH are now working OK.
Of the four I have looked at 'failure at start-up, no start' has been the reason for interlock.
These are followed by 'vehicle low on fuel' 'communications failure' (unplugging the FBH before the vehicle has gone to sleep) 'power loss' (pulling the fuse out).
Ian..so what can I fiddle with today that ain't broken ...?
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Matt you are correct the ODBII plug MUST NOT be plugged into the Disc3 Diag socket. That would not be good. I have some pics of what to do with that.
.. stay clear of it and make sure no wires are hanging around it.
