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FBH question
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IanNP
 


Member Since: 17 Aug 2009
Location: Lancashire, Chorley ..ish
Posts: 204

United Kingdom 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Lux Auto Corris GreyDiscovery 4

BBS SPY wrote:
I read this thread with some interest myself and must before anything else add my personal commendation to Ian for his ground breaking work.

Some time ago, perhaps a year or so back, i was asked by Wiggs to do an FBH control module capable of replicating the timer mod but in a more cost effective, easier and neater package.

However although technically doing this is no problem, time constraints and higher priorities have meant that we have been unable thus far to spend any time on doing this.

However during my recent work on a D4 to D3 wheel conversion project http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic44385.html?highlight= which has now moved to adding a wireless link to accomodate paddle shifting, i believe i have figured a way to also and easily incorporate remote FBH control using a regular and low cost plip.

It would be really easy for me to add PC conectivity to our design such that anyone could also jack in with a PC and use this Webasto software as well.


Bow down
Praise indeed I am touched!
 ..so what can I fiddle with today that ain't broken ...?  
Post #63891220th Apr 2010 9:52 pm
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AN
 


Member Since: 26 Jul 2005
Location: Hungary
Posts: 327

Hungary 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

Ian,

I followed your guide and got OBDII reader hooked to pin 2 on the FBH, left CAN bus and other pins connected (just pluged into pin2 wire as on my car it was already wired by LR as on same early models).

I cleared two fault codes, old ones, look like occured 100 hours ago, the FBH was not locked out.

I tried to start the FBH by the program, it started but after the operation Glow 61 it just started to shut itself down and got a fault with STFL and Interlock 2, same as your screenshoot on your post. I cleared the fault, but I could not rid off the Interlock through the program, thus I disconnected the FBH fuse, which got rid off the Interlock. I tried to start the FBH couple times but always got the same fault. Any idea what is wrong?

I tried to start the FBH with engine off, maybe this is a problem (does the FHB get fuel with engine off)?

Thanks, Arpad
 LR D3 S Black, Auto TDV6  
Post #64324030th Apr 2010 4:06 pm
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mattgreen
 


Member Since: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Worksop
Posts: 211

United Kingdom 2012 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Santorini BlackDiscovery 4

Arpad,

did you have any luck getting your FBH to stay running?

I think I have a similar problem - I'm building the wiring harness now to connect to the OBDII reader so i should know more soon...

Matt
  
Post #70713822nd Oct 2010 9:00 pm
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AN
 


Member Since: 26 Jul 2005
Location: Hungary
Posts: 327

Hungary 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

Matt,

Yes, I did, and it blow my mind away....

After my post I tried couple of more times and eventually tried to run just the pump of the FBH. This is when I started to spell diesel, got worried, stoped everything. I started to investigate, OK no diesel in the FBH exoust pipe, but there was a pool of diesel under the car, tried to to trace the fule pipe of the FBH from the top and discovered that it was NEVER connected to the fuel line of the car, thus it NEVER worked for 5 years.

Land Rover installed the FBH in the factory, and the end of FBH fuel line was never connected to the fule line just behind the front left wheel arch inner liner. The end of FBH fuel line was just wrapped around the FBH top section. This is a plastic pipe and it still had the white mark, which shows to the worked how long, deep they have to push the fuel line to the car fuel line connector.

After the fuel line got connected, everything worked perfectly.

Regards, Arpad
 LR D3 S Black, Auto TDV6  
Post #70726723rd Oct 2010 9:00 am
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IanNP
 


Member Since: 17 Aug 2009
Location: Lancashire, Chorley ..ish
Posts: 204

United Kingdom 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Lux Auto Corris GreyDiscovery 4

Ouch - you should get better fuel econmy now in the winter now it isn't dumping the diesel on the floor Exclamation

Yours must have been built when the FBH pipe connector guy was of ill Rolling with laughter

There are three errors that have no obvious meaning STFL, SAFL and RZFL.
The STFL is some kind of Safety Temp for the water.
Also I don't know the diff between Interlock 1 amd Interlock 2.

We have had one cold morning this month and happily the FBH worked on its own.

Ian
 ..so what can I fiddle with today that ain't broken ...?  
Post #70731023rd Oct 2010 11:27 am
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mattgreen
 


Member Since: 15 Sep 2009
Location: Worksop
Posts: 211

United Kingdom 2012 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Santorini BlackDiscovery 4

IanNP wrote:

There are three errors that have no obvious meaning STFL, SAFL and RZFL.
The STFL is some kind of Safety Temp for the water.
Also I don't know the diff between Interlock 1 amd Interlock 2.


Ian - do you have any thoughts on where we might find out? I guess Webasto should know - does anyone have a good contact there or with a friendly Webasto service agent?

...hold on, I've just done some Googling around...

STFL - see http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/abkuerzunge...95271.html - this link is in German but you can get Google to translate (at least my Google Chrome browser does). The guy says that STFL means a Störflag is set, I think this means an error is stored (often called flags in software engineering).

SAFL - from the same link as above - "...describes the normal state of an auxiliary heater / heater before the start"

RZFL - I don't have an answer yet but I am now in contact with a guy who has written some software that communicates with WBUS devices (Webasto's data bus). I'm going to get hold of his software (it's open-source so freely available) and see if it gives more detailed diagnostics.

Does the Webasto Thermo Top software give details of specific errors or does it just show STFL, SAFL and RZFL?

Looking at the code behind this guys software, it appears that STFL, SAFL and RZFL are overall status codes of the heater rather than detailed error codes - there is a list of error codes, I'm just finding out how to access them and what they mean.

My feeling is that there's always lots of questions on the forum about FBH's locking out but very few of us seem able to get to the root cause as to why - some are the obvious causes (low fuel, air-con off, vehicle tilted beyond 5°) but if there's a fault in the FBH itself it's not that easy to diagnose.

I took mine to the dealers, they cleared fault codes, ran the priming cycle, it fired up, let it cool, it started up ok so they declared it "working fine". However, after 3 or 4 starts it only runs for a short while before cutting out - I don't trust them to do a thorough diagnostic...

Anyway, as I find out more I shall post info on here.

Matt
  
Post #70749723rd Oct 2010 8:21 pm
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IanNP
 


Member Since: 17 Aug 2009
Location: Lancashire, Chorley ..ish
Posts: 204

United Kingdom 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Lux Auto Corris GreyDiscovery 4

mattgreen wrote:
IanNP wrote:

There are three errors that have no obvious meaning STFL, SAFL and RZFL.
The STFL is some kind of Safety Temp for the water.
Also I don't know the diff between Interlock 1 amd Interlock 2.


Ian - do you have any thoughts on where we might find out? I guess Webasto should know - does anyone have a good contact there or with a friendly Webasto service agent?

...hold on, I've just done some Googling around...

STFL - see http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/abkuerzunge...95271.html - this link is in German but you can get Google to translate (at least my Google Chrome browser does). The guy says that STFL means a Störflag is set, I think this means an error is stored (often called flags in software engineering).

SAFL - from the same link as above - "...describes the normal state of an auxiliary heater / heater before the start"

RZFL - I don't have an answer yet but I am now in contact with a guy who has written some software that communicates with WBUS devices (Webasto's data bus). I'm going to get hold of his software (it's open-source so freely available) and see if it gives more detailed diagnostics.

Does the Webasto Thermo Top software give details of specific errors or does it just show STFL, SAFL and RZFL?

Looking at the code behind this guys software, it appears that STFL, SAFL and RZFL are overall status codes of the heater rather than detailed error codes - there is a list of error codes, I'm just finding out how to access them and what they mean.

My feeling is that there's always lots of questions on the forum about FBH's locking out but very few of us seem able to get to the root cause as to why - some are the obvious causes (low fuel, air-con off, vehicle tilted beyond 5°) but if there's a fault in the FBH itself it's not that easy to diagnose.

I took mine to the dealers, they cleared fault codes, ran the priming cycle, it fired up, let it cool, it started up ok so they declared it "working fine". However, after 3 or 4 starts it only runs for a short while before cutting out - I don't trust them to do a thorough diagnostic...

Anyway, as I find out more I shall post info on here.

Matt




Matt it maybe a 'state' rather than an error, as they are in the routine of heater startup/shutdown

..taken from the only soure code I could find:

/*byte1 Operating state state number*/
/*byte2 Device state*/
#define WB_DSTATE_STFL 0x01 /* STFL */
#define WB_DSTATE_UEHFL 0x02 /* UEHFL */
#define WB_DSTATE_SAFL 0x04 /* SAFL */
#define WB_DSTATE_RZFL 0x08 /* RZFL */

There are a few hundred overal error codes that are Webasto specific and some that are vehicle manufacturer specific.
When the STFL state etc creates an interlock it shuold be possible to print the log from the PC programme which should list the errors.
In theory anyway.

I can't get hold of Webasto's W-Bus data sheets, this would give all the information required. There are people out there that have it - hence the bits of open-source code, but it is all in source code (c or others) and gives no actual meaning to the stucture or the errors.

Ian
 ..so what can I fiddle with today that ain't broken ...?  
Post #70753823rd Oct 2010 9:54 pm
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Tufty
 


Member Since: 13 Jul 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 480

England 2009 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

I went out this morning to test mine and I'm pleased to report it is working (at the moment Shocked) and very quiet.
I do however have a question does your dash indicator come on when it's working as mine doesn't Confused (05 D3).
  
Post #70780124th Oct 2010 6:21 pm
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zarnd
 


Member Since: 23 Apr 2010
Location: Kent
Posts: 794

United Kingdom 2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Zermatt SilverDiscovery 3

There is a dash indicator? Haven't seen any smoke since I have owned my D3. Have noticed that I am using more fuel compared to the summer. Couldn't hear what I could be 100% sure was the FBH, but touched the exhaust and now have a burnt finger Laughing

Happy days. I suppose!
 Alex

2007 D3 TDV6 HSE
2009 Caterham Supersport
2005 FFRR Vogue SE 4.2 Supercharged
2004 SL55 AMG 
 
Post #70783424th Oct 2010 7:16 pm
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IanNP
 


Member Since: 17 Aug 2009
Location: Lancashire, Chorley ..ish
Posts: 204

United Kingdom 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Lux Auto Corris GreyDiscovery 4

The red heater indicator in the binnacle is for the auxiliary heating. This became the side lights on indicator from 2007.

When the disco3 first came out in 2004 it was possible to set what time the aux heating came on - then when you came out to the vehicle it was all nice and warm. When the timer was set the indicator came on.

Land Rover couldn't get it work correctly so in 2005 the feature was removed and the FBH became a supplementary heater.

The exhaust for the FBH gets very very hot. So if you have burnt fingers it is working Rolling with laughter
The FBH is very quiet when running. If it has been running, when you turn the engine off and sit inside the vehicle you can here it running for a few seconds, before it goes into shut down.
Also if the FBH is not working, the engine in temps below 2deg at tickover will not get to 'normal' working temp. The cooling system is that good!

Ian
 ..so what can I fiddle with today that ain't broken ...?  
Post #70787424th Oct 2010 8:02 pm
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IanNP
 


Member Since: 17 Aug 2009
Location: Lancashire, Chorley ..ish
Posts: 204

United Kingdom 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Lux Auto Corris GreyDiscovery 4

Shocked
 ..so what can I fiddle with today that ain't broken ...?  
Post #70787524th Oct 2010 8:02 pm
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RMB
 


Member Since: 20 Mar 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 260

Scotland 2014 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 Commercial XS Auto Santorini BlackDiscovery 4

Fuse trick worked for me Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

Thanks Guys
 B-A-S Remap Interface giving me control over my remap  
Post #70787924th Oct 2010 8:16 pm
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tdv6tom
 


Member Since: 02 Feb 2009
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 127

Northern Ireland 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Zambezi SilverDiscovery 3

HI IanNP

Just wondering where i can download the Webasto program?

Apologies, if you have already given its where abouts!!

Thanks
Tom
  
Post #71684416th Nov 2010 7:14 pm
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IanNP
 


Member Since: 17 Aug 2009
Location: Lancashire, Chorley ..ish
Posts: 204

United Kingdom 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Lux Auto Corris GreyDiscovery 4

Shhh. Don't tell everyone..! Whistle
This is the new version 2.11 instructions:
http://www.techwebasto.com/heater_main/the..._V2.11.pdf

This is the new 2.11 pc diag
http://www.techwebasto.com/heater_main/the...g_2_11.exe

I havn't used this version yet, but looks similar to the earlier version.

I now have a few NEW plugs that will fit the Land Rover Webasto heater (8 pin) if anyone is interested. Surprised

Any probs give me a shout.
Ian
 ..so what can I fiddle with today that ain't broken ...?  
Post #71689316th Nov 2010 8:22 pm
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Martin
Site Admin and Owner 


Member Since: 06 Nov 2004
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 18457

United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Manual Buckingham BlueDiscovery 3

Well I've finally found a use for the OBDII interface I was given for the Mini and have never got to work (can't find any software for it).

Hooked up the FBH with a harness that Ian very kindly sent me earlier in the year, ran the Webasto software and hey presto - parking heater mode Smile

However, I did something that I think was probably a bit daft - instead of letting the parking heater mode complete properly, I switched the FBH back to "Off" with the software and after cooling off it went into Interlock 2 state Sad

The FBH didn't then run as normal when I took the D3 out, so pulled Fuse 28 for half an hour, and it seemed to reset it.

So, was I wrong to come out of park heater mode by going back to Off in the software?
 06 D3 SE / 15 LR D90 XS SW / 88 LR 90 Td5 / 68 BMW 2000 ti
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Post #7247032nd Dec 2010 8:36 pm
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