Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23391
Mileage adjustment.
The other night I had a somewhat drunken pub conversation about vehicles being clocked. One bloke knows someone who's job is to dispose of ex lease vehicles. Apparently, he estimates that over half of these ex lease vehicles have been "clocked" on a regular basis to keep within the agreed mileage.
Another bloke who always drives sub £4k Mondeos, he's on his 4th or 5th one, thinks that he's looked at several over the last few years that he thought had been clocked.
A quick search on Google shows that there's numerous companies/individuals who will "adjust the mileage" on your vehicle for you.
I was wondering if a D3/4 was clocked, could you tell, if you had the right diagnostic equipment? I'm sure that at least one computer somewhere in the vehicle must log the mileage. So whilst the odometer could be "adjusted", the true mileage could still be obtained.
3rd Jan 2011 2:40 pm
character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
another reason to buy only a D3 with a fully documented service history as it will show the mileage on the invoice or at worst the past mot sheets which for sometime have been computerised and the mileage has to be entered
as for yer man in the pub claiming that alot of ex-lease cars have been clocked..... bit of an urban myth. I too collect ex-lease vehicles for the best part of the week. During its lifetime the vehicle will be maintained often at the lease companies expense and therefore any repairs/service will have to be sanctioned by the lease company at the time with the mileage recorded. When the vehicle is coming to its end of agreement, the vehicle will be inspected prior to or at the same time as it is being taken off either to auction or a separate compound where upon entry it will be inspected once more, again with the mileage recorded and sometimes with the date the last service/mileage recorded in the book pack. All of this info is fed back eletronically or is recorded as such so that a full history of the vehicle is available when being disposed of at the sale rooms/oher sale channels. Alot of this info is also provided by the lease company to these credit agencies such as experian/hpi either directly or indirectly via DVLA.
I guess it could be altered AFTER purchase by the private individual/garage sales forecourt, but of course you'd ask for a documented history including past MOT sheets (not just the service book) and or speak to the previous owner on the V5C or servicing garage (the stamp often includes the contact details of the garage) OR at worst, if still not sure have a look at the number plate or rear window and contact the service dept of the supplying dealer so see what they know before passing over any money.
Last edited by character on 3rd Jan 2011 2:59 pm. Edited 1 time in total
3rd Jan 2011 2:42 pm
PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 4317
Re: Mileage adjustment.
LT wrote:
So whilst the odometer could be "adjusted", the true mileage could still be obtained.
The mileage/km odometer value is stored in a different system - not just the instrument cluster. In fact it is stored in more than one "other" location
Also, the instrument clusters in the D3 can only be written in an equal or incremental way compared to the mileage stored in "the other" location and I believe they also freeze out after a relatively small amount of kms and therefore cannot be changed again.
Obviously it could be done by brute force methods with the right equipment and skills, but it certainly isn't easy to modify the mileage on a D3 if that helps
I would also guess that the people that know a lot more about this than me would not really be willing to discuss this in too much detail on an open forum 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE AutoBuckingham Blue 2007 Golf GT DSG
3rd Jan 2011 2:50 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23391
So I thought, but apparently on these lease cars, they get clocked between services, so the service history is all good.
For example if the service interval is every 15k miles. they drive 25k miles, get the mileage adjusted down and have it serviced as per schedule.
If you're liable for say 6p per mile over the agreed limit. For an additional 30k miles, that's £1,800. I was told that the typical cost for mileage adjustment is in the region of £100.
If you're clocking up the motorway miles on an expensive car, you might be liable for 10p per mile over the agreed limit. So, having it clocked 3 or 4 times would only cost around £400 but could save several thousand £'s.
Apparently it's very common.
Certainly for me, leasing hasn't ever been an option as the cost for higher than average annual mileage makes it too expensive.
3rd Jan 2011 3:06 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23391
Re: Mileage adjustment.
PaulP wrote:
LT wrote:
So whilst the odometer could be "adjusted", the true mileage could still be obtained.
The mileage/km odometer value is stored in a different system - not just the instrument cluster. In fact it is stored in more than one "other" location
That was my argument for the D3 in the pub. But blokey thought that it was no harder to change the mileage on all the sysrems, than it is to re-map an ecu. It was just a case of the initial work taking the time to crack it.
As you say though it's not going to be discussed in a public forum.
It certainly makes you think though.
3rd Jan 2011 3:16 pm
character
Member Since: 01 Jan 2008
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
As has been mentioned by Paul, modern cars have ECU's that record such info and of course are designed to be tamper proof, lease companies do keep a VERY carefull eye on what wears quicker than it should (ie tyres which have to be sanctioned), they have back room staff who look at these things on a case by case basis. You'd have to be a very very good liar not to slip up at somepoint over a 3 year lease agreement
I've collected vehicles/seen vehicles being delivered which are have "do not de-hire" written on the screen which are inspected/investigated by a rep from the lease company prior to any decision to dispose of it. If buying from auction, look for the description "warranted" after the mileage.
All one can say it "get it on paper" and follow an audit trail.
Was just wondering, if you were to replace the engine on any vehicle, are you allowed to re-adjust the vehicle's mileage then?Visit my car detailing blog at http://maksimumdetail.wordpress.com
3rd Jan 2011 3:28 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23391
Character, I agree with what you're saying. The bloke's mate works for a manufacturer, the car's that he deals with are all non-maintenance contracts, many of them on a 2 yr contract.
You know as well as me, that 25k sensibly driven motorway miles on long journeys, can be a lot less punishing than 12k miles of short journeys.
It's only the next day when I was sober and started to think about it clearly that I realised how big an issue it could be.
3rd Jan 2011 3:30 pm
PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 4317
Re: Mileage adjustment.
LT wrote:
But blokey thought that it was no harder to change the mileage on all the sysrems, than it is to re-map an ecu. It was just a case of the initial work taking the time to crack it.
Interesting concept (no doubt fuelled by a fair few pints of the good stuff , but EMS ECUs are designed to be reprogrammed. The thing were are talking about is designed NOT to be tampered with as Character says.
But....if someone was determined enough, I'm sure that it could be done.
All I can say is that I've had several fairly long and technical conversations with Colin from BBS about this when I was looking to change my instrument cluster for a newer one (to get the updated message screen and green lights-on indicator, and I've been able to play around with what we're discussing using my Faultmate and I can guarantee that it is simply NOT possible to change the mileage even with something like the MSV-2.
I do know someone else on this forum that I think would be able to do it, but I also know them enough to know that they wouldn't ever want to or even think about getting involved in doing it.....
(how's that for a cryptic message )2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE AutoBuckingham Blue 2007 Golf GT DSG
3rd Jan 2011 3:30 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23391
I'm starting to get paranoid myself
I have to say, my instinct is to believe that it would be possible to do and the financial gains would warrant the effort and time etc. No doubt these guys who advertise their services on the internet often end up being paid in cash as well
Just enter "mileage correction" into an internet search engine. There's loads of them, all have a disclaimer on their website and the few I've just looked at only have a mobile number and email address as contact details.
3rd Jan 2011 3:49 pm
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
It does happen, as we worked with a guy once who did it. He used to do it between services. He was on a non maintenance package for 3 years. Wasn't a D3 though.
Crazy thing to do as it is a criminal offence.
3rd Jan 2011 4:00 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23391
I agree countrywide, I did get the impression that it's overlooked though. The ex-lease vehicles are sold on via auctions and the original customers often take out a new contract.
If this bloke was to rock the boat and start investigating etc. the manufacturer could loose new buyers! So a blind eye is turned.
Buyer beware I suppose.
3rd Jan 2011 4:20 pm
dtest
Member Since: 02 Jan 2011
Location: Weybridge
Posts: 140
The true mileage is always logged in the transmission controller REGARDLESS of what the instrument cluster says.
The trouble is that most dealers do not know how to access the gearbox controller to verify the information
3rd Jan 2011 5:45 pm
SN
Member Since: 03 Jan 2006
Location: Romiley
Posts: 13710
all sounds fookin' illegal to me (he says with an ex-lease car - only one year so how bad can it be?)Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history)
3rd Jan 2011 6:03 pm
Ken
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 10865
Bloody Bloody Serious these covert people are complete you know
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
, but EMS ECUs are designed to be reprogrammed. The thing were are talking about is designed NOT to be tampered with as Character says.
| 08MY Discovery 3 (history) 
you know 
