Member Since: 25 Oct 2010
Location: Pretoria and Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 188
Hi Adam
you will have to use it contineously. You will start to see major benefits after about 2000km. But please remember: To maximize the benefits, you will have to blank off the EGR's (pre-DPF vehicles). Otherwise, the gunk piled on by the EGR's is greater than what the carbon reducing detergents in the 2sO can remove.
Just to give a quick example. Earlier this year, Anthony of Torqtune ("Baben" on this forum) contacted me with a problem he picked up with the TDV6 of a customer of his from the Swiss Embassy in Pretoria.
The customer wanted to have his vehicle remapped. To this effect I advised him to blank the EGR's and to have the cat removed. This was done.
Then Anthony remapped the vehicle. And that is when the problems started. The vehicle started to belch out copious amounts of black smoke. The turbo hose was inspected to be in perfect shape. So the car went to an indie who inspected the vehicle and found nothing wrong.
During the rebuild of our vehicle's turbo in October last year, I did extensive research into why these turbos failed. There were three main reasons:
1. Blocked Cat which led to excess heat radiation onto the turbo housing and core.
2. Partially or totally inoperative operation of the VVT mechanism in the turbo exhaust housing due to excessive carbon build up.
3. Burnt out stepper motor due to point 1 (rare) or 2 above.
As the cat and EGR were removed, I advised the customer to add 1 litre to each of the next two fill ups and there after 500ml and then 200ml per tank (we use 50ppm diesel in SA).
After about 800km a marked reduction of smoking became apparent and this completely disappeared after about 2000km and has not returned to date.
What actually happened? Quite easily explained the following:
1. VVT mechanism was full of carbon deposits which restricted the VVT vanes to close completely, therefore preventing proper spool up of the turbo below 2400rpm. The addition of an excessive amount of 2sO with its detergent additives cleaned up the carbon deposits and got the mechanism free again.
BTW the MAP sensor was clean.
To illustrate:
Typically failed turbo with totally gunked up VVT mechanism which was impossible to move. This normally also leads to the stepper motor burning out.
Turbo out of my vehicle with clean mechanism (Failure was caused by excess heat radiation from a blocked cat, turbo shaft was blue). Check the very clean surface swiped by the vane mechanism!
Click image to enlarge
My modification with ceramically coated turbo exhaust housing (Powerkote) which facilitates quicker spool up of the turbo and prevents excess heat radiation onto the the stepper motor. This also prevents hot shut down induced failure of turbo bearings.
Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge
Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated EX AFRICA SEMPER ALIQUID NOVI
SEMPER IN FAECIBUS SUMUS SOLE, PROFUNDUM VARIAT
with kind regards
George Bosch
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
2003 Range Rover Td6
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi (sold)
And some more serious stuff
14th Jun 2012 9:47 am
adam
Member Since: 20 Sep 2005
Location: Home and Happy
Posts: 6917
Thanks for the info - not sure I can blank the egrs on a 2010 D4 engine?
Will I still see any benefit or am I wasting cash / poss damage?
Cheers
Adam
14th Jun 2012 10:17 am
B16 KJR
Member Since: 10 Jul 2006
Location: Rosyth, Fife
Posts: 3005
Great write up and photos hgbosch, clearly shows the benefits of 2T Adam, the MY 2010 will throw up the EML if you blank the EGRs, Pete Bell at BAS was working on a fix for this, but I don't know if he has managed to get it finished though
14th Jun 2012 11:03 am
adam
Member Since: 20 Sep 2005
Location: Home and Happy
Posts: 6917
B16
Assume adding the 2T will still benefit - thought it would help clear the EGR's if it reduces smoking??
14th Jun 2012 12:12 pm
B16 KJR
Member Since: 10 Jul 2006
Location: Rosyth, Fife
Posts: 3005
I would say looking at the photos above, that using 2T will not only help prevent the turbo vanes sticking but it should also prevent carbon build-up in the EGRs which causes them to fail. I can't see any down side to keeping the internals of your engine clean
14th Jun 2012 12:19 pm
adam
Member Since: 20 Sep 2005
Location: Home and Happy
Posts: 6917
OK - got acouple of long motorway runs coming up so will see how it feels after that
14th Jun 2012 1:02 pm
hugeviking
Member Since: 08 Jun 2010
Location: cotswolds
Posts: 1482
Sorry hgbosch but got to ask,
Did the cat' catch all the gunk washed from the turbo by the 2T oil, because if a blocked cat' causes the turbo to fail are we any better off.
Andi,
14th Jun 2012 9:15 pm
hgbosch
Member Since: 25 Oct 2010
Location: Pretoria and Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 188
hugeviking wrote:
Sorry hgbosch but got to ask,
Did the cat' catch all the gunk washed from the turbo by the 2T oil, because if a blocked cat' causes the turbo to fail are we any better off.
Andi,
Hi Andi
not quite. We bought the car with 146'000km and I immediately ripped out the cat and fitted the EGR kit. Unfortunately the (heat) damage was already done to the turbo and it gave in at 153'000km. It had blue seizure marks on the turbo shaft. The CAT was quite badly blocked.
As far as CAT blockage is concerned, if a vehicle is driven from day one with 2sO then the CAT will last at least twice as long due to the much reduced "Feinstaub". The same goes for the regeneration cycles of a DPF, where it takes at least twice as many kilometres driven, before the regen kicks in.EX AFRICA SEMPER ALIQUID NOVI
SEMPER IN FAECIBUS SUMUS SOLE, PROFUNDUM VARIAT
with kind regards
George Bosch
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
2003 Range Rover Td6
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi (sold)
And some more serious stuff
14th Jun 2012 9:33 pm
hugeviking
Member Since: 08 Jun 2010
Location: cotswolds
Posts: 1482
Thanks for the reply Hgbosch,
my car has done 85,000 miles, if I start using 2T now will it just dump a load of crud in to the cat'.
All the best Andi.
15th Jun 2012 8:11 pm
D4JWW
Member Since: 20 Oct 2009
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1318
hugeviking wrote:
Thanks for the reply Hgbosch,
my car has done 85,000 miles, if I start using 2T now will it just dump a load of crud in to the cat'.
All the best Andi.
more reason to remove cat.A few mods... and keeping it all running...Faultmate MSV2
MY09EGR's blanked Thanks Bellautos, BAS
15th Jun 2012 8:34 pm
hugeviking
Member Since: 08 Jun 2010
Location: cotswolds
Posts: 1482
And I was so close to getting some 2T, won't bother now.
cheers,
Andi.
15th Jun 2012 8:45 pm
crwoody
Member Since: 09 Mar 2009
Location: Littleborough
Posts: 2109
If it's any help, I blanked my EGR's at 89k and started using 2T after that, now up to 116k and still runs sweet as a nut with no bother at all
Edit; still got the original cat on too.Clive
15th Jun 2012 8:59 pm
hugeviking
Member Since: 08 Jun 2010
Location: cotswolds
Posts: 1482
Cheers crwoody'
I really don't know which way to go with this one.
Andi.
15th Jun 2012 9:11 pm
hgbosch
Member Since: 25 Oct 2010
Location: Pretoria and Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 188
hugeviking wrote:
Cheers crwoody'
I really don't know which way to go with this one.
Andi.
hugeviking and others
There is a specific reason, why we are removing cats here in SA. Our diesel is cr#p and dirty and causes CAT's to clog inside of 40'000mls. 50ppm diesel is not available everywhere so even D3 and D4' have to be run sometimes on 500ppm.
Using 2sO drastically reduces the very fine solid particles (clouding factor or Feinstaub in german) emitted by diesel engines.
So here in SA we are removing them (cat's) primarily for performance reasons.
In (western) Europe you got very clean and ultra low sulphur (<10ppm) diesel, so blocked cats in Europe are not such an issue.
I trust that this will explain our SA situation better.EX AFRICA SEMPER ALIQUID NOVI
SEMPER IN FAECIBUS SUMUS SOLE, PROFUNDUM VARIAT
with kind regards
George Bosch
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
2003 Range Rover Td6
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi (sold)
And some more serious stuff
15th Jun 2012 10:31 pm
B16 KJR
Member Since: 10 Jul 2006
Location: Rosyth, Fife
Posts: 3005
Quote:
In (western) Europe you got very clean and ultra low sulphur (<10ppm) diesel, so blocked cats in Europe are not such an issue.
Has that changed your mind hugeviking ? Go for it.
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Adam, the MY 2010 will throw up the EML if you blank the EGRs, Pete Bell at BAS was working on a fix for this, but I don't know if he has managed to get it finished though 
