Member Since: 30 Apr 2012
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 10
Broken engine
Hi all..
MY08 Disco 3 TDV6 SE. Coming off the motorway after about an hour drive, engine starts making a knocking/tapping noise. Finished my drive home - 2km max.
Parked up and not driven again, towed to the LR dealership the following Monday. Dealer may have driven it into the workshop after it'd been dropped off.
Call from dealer yesterday, oil pump has failed and needs replacing, doing the CAM belt service at the same time (was due in a couple of weeks anyway). They found metal fragments in the oil also - thought likely to be the oil pump but warned me that it could be something else.
Call from the dealer today, found bits of bearing in the sump - new engine required. I'm gutted.
I'm waiting on a more detailed report of cause etc. and a quote for new/second hand engine options but asking if anyone has any thoughts, recommendations on what to do next? In particular, questions to ask the dealer..
Suspect new engine will cost more that the car is worth, would probably rather put towards a new car.
Will post more detail when I get it..
Thanks
16th Sep 2015 8:03 am
Bodsy Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
We know exactly what's happened.....
Search for timing belt tensioner, grab a cup of tea (or a long beer). Maybe You can then have a meaningful discussion with LR about how they intend to fix this catastrophic failure of a part that they've redesigned 4 times in 18 months.....Bodsys Brake Bible
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset See It Here
16th Sep 2015 8:19 am
Davo11
Member Since: 30 Apr 2012
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 10
Thanks Bodsy, had a bit of a read.. sounds like you've been all over this issue for a while
I think I'll need a large stein to last me through all of the posts on this topic, and too ease the pain of my loss
Feeling some comfort in the fact that some seem to have got a contribution from LR towards a new engine. I have full 7 year LR dealer service history (and an empty wallet).. so surely there is a case to be made.
Sounds like the dealer will deny all knowledge of a known issue, but I will ask some probing questions.
16th Sep 2015 9:06 am
SN
Member Since: 03 Jan 2006
Location: Romiley
Posts: 13710
so glad I'm out of this scarey game of chance now I've sold my MY08 D3Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history)
16th Sep 2015 9:33 am
Rich84
Member Since: 26 Jun 2013
Location: South Australia
Posts: 238
Sounds more like a bearing failure than the usual oil pump casting break failure... you would not be able to drive it home in the case of the latter.
Who has been doing your servicing? Oil filter is very easy to install incorrectly, which causes low oil pressure. Also these engines tend to be very specific in the type of oil they require.
The TDV6 is known however to have bearing and crankshaft failures, whether or not this is due to incorrect oil or oil filter installation at some point in the vehicle's life. LR state low numbers are affected but we don't really know for sure. There's a LR Service Bulletin out on the issue. See http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic111733.html
A godsend for us Australians is the fact that the Ford Territory TDCi uses the exact same engine, in the same configuration as the LRs (only the lower sump, oil pickup and some anciliaries are different), and is the latest version of the engine which typically doesn't suffer from the same failures, and it's easy to get a low km engine. Budget about $3500-4500 for the engine, install will be on top of that.
EDIT: That's of course if you don't get anywhere with LR contributing to a new engine. Which they should - whatever the failure mode, it's well documented, we all know about it. Don't accept the 'stupid customer' routine they will no doubt try on you.2008 RRS TDV6 - Chawton White/Black/Lined Oak - 20's, h/k, sunroof - 350K KM.
2010 Audi A6 3.0T S-Line - Phamtom Black/exclusive 2-tone valcona 184K
2000 Audi A4 avant 1.8t Q Sport - Phantom Black/black 385K KM
1990 Nissan Pintara TRX - red - lots of mods - 439K KM
16th Sep 2015 11:52 pm
Davo11
Member Since: 30 Apr 2012
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 10
Thanks Rich, useful info.
Servicing always done by LR dealership.
Hopefully I will get some more specific info today on the cause.
17th Sep 2015 12:15 am
Davo11
Member Since: 30 Apr 2012
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 10
Confirmed that its the 'big end' bearing by the dealership. Diagnosis from bearing shell found in sump.
Oil pump confirmed ok.
Any tips on who to contact in Aus for customer service? In writing or phone calls??
What kind of evidence might be required? SSM71816 does seem to suggest they recognise the issue.
Anyone had a successful resolution from LR on a car so far out of warranty? - 7 years old.
17th Sep 2015 2:43 am
Rich84
Member Since: 26 Jun 2013
Location: South Australia
Posts: 238
Unfortunately I wouldn't know - I've only ever dealt with Solitaire in Adelaide, and after having dealt with them, I feel certain they will deny everything, including the existence of the LR service bulletin.
Have you spoken frankly to your dealer yet? Armed with a full LR service history and the TSB, I think you have a pretty good chance of getting a good result here.
How many km on the engine?2008 RRS TDV6 - Chawton White/Black/Lined Oak - 20's, h/k, sunroof - 350K KM.
2010 Audi A6 3.0T S-Line - Phamtom Black/exclusive 2-tone valcona 184K
2000 Audi A4 avant 1.8t Q Sport - Phantom Black/black 385K KM
1990 Nissan Pintara TRX - red - lots of mods - 439K KM
17th Sep 2015 4:25 am
Davo11
Member Since: 30 Apr 2012
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 10
Yea spoke to the service guy, and politely told them I'd probably be taking it up with customer relations. I also pointed out the SSM, he was unaware of it, but found it on his system and read it while we were on the phone. Perhaps they will do some more investigation their end now.
The quote for a new engine, turbo and some exhaust parts(?) is $29K including fitting.
There is an easy 120,000km on the clock - within the expectation for the age. Every service triggered on time rather than kms.
17th Sep 2015 4:40 am
Rich84
Member Since: 26 Jun 2013
Location: South Australia
Posts: 238
While that sounds absolutely outrageous, it's definitely not outside the realms of belief when it comes to a dealer! I often ring up Solitaire for pricing, just to remind myself why I never buy anything there... Solitaire are the Audi dealer in Adelaide too, they quoted me $85 for a 1/2" ID x about 20cm U-shaped hose for my A4... Got the same hose from US for $5.
Triumph Rover Spares in Lonsdale have a new 2.7 with all anciliaries for sale for $11K ish, but like I said earlier, you can get a Territory 2.7 with all anciliaries for $3500-$4500 with low km.
Definitely try hard to get LR to cover most if not all of this cost. Having an engine spin a bearing at 120K on a modern motor is simply not good enough. I'd be seriously annoyed if mine failed now at nearly double that mileage!2008 RRS TDV6 - Chawton White/Black/Lined Oak - 20's, h/k, sunroof - 350K KM.
2010 Audi A6 3.0T S-Line - Phamtom Black/exclusive 2-tone valcona 184K
2000 Audi A4 avant 1.8t Q Sport - Phantom Black/black 385K KM
1990 Nissan Pintara TRX - red - lots of mods - 439K KM
17th Sep 2015 4:53 am
garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1115
Consumer law in Aust should give you a lot of support given the low KM of the engine and the LR UK documents highlighting these very issues with these engines.
I would be firm but polite with LR on this - leave emotions out of it. If not satisfied then through your local consumer affairs organization and a formal complaint to the ACCC via their website - gien the UK documentation I think you would have a good case with the ACCC.
As mentioned if it is ultimately up to you - get a Territory engine and just move across LR specific ancillaries. Also remember Jag and Citroen have these engines as well and may be an alternative along the same lines as the Territory engine.
garry
17th Sep 2015 5:14 am
garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1115
Rich84 wrote:
I'd be seriously annoyed if mine failed now at nearly double that mileage!
An acquaintance of mine just had his 08MY let go with over 300,000km on it - drove it to work and back every day - 160km of higher speed country kms.
So it can happen at any time, it would seem.
Mine is a June 07 build so I guess I am right in the middle of the danger zone.
17th Sep 2015 5:20 am
Rich84
Member Since: 26 Jun 2013
Location: South Australia
Posts: 238
What was your acquaintance's specific failure Garry? Were you able to determine?2008 RRS TDV6 - Chawton White/Black/Lined Oak - 20's, h/k, sunroof - 350K KM.
2010 Audi A6 3.0T S-Line - Phamtom Black/exclusive 2-tone valcona 184K
2000 Audi A4 avant 1.8t Q Sport - Phantom Black/black 385K KM
1990 Nissan Pintara TRX - red - lots of mods - 439K KM
17th Sep 2015 5:50 am
garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1115
I was expecting it to be the oil pump housing as he has been through two can belt changes with the original oil pump but he was driving along and the engine just seized - he didn't bother pulling the engine down but expects it was the spun bearing, crank failure with with things in the bottom end moving and locking the engine.
This was his second D3, both of which had over 300,000km so in km terms this was an old car so he sold the car as was - he didn't want the issues of sourcing an engine and rebuilding etc so sold off the car to someone who was prepared to put the time and $$ in to rebuild.
He bought a new Defender and took delivery of it a week or so ago.
Garry
17th Sep 2015 6:00 am
LeighW D3 Decade
Member Since: 31 Jan 2006
Location: Brisbane, AUS
Posts: 916
Hi Davo11 I am now 40 000 km into a new engine after the first failed in a similar manner to some of the others mentioned on this site and www.4x4community.co.za (South Africa has similar road conditions and quite a few failures related to bearings or crankshaft). Make yourself a member of that site and read about LRSA's offerings for vehicles definitely not more than 7 years of age AND with not more than 240 000 km. (Read http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/showthread.php?t=231284 )
What you read won't gladden you but I had a disheartening time via protracted correspondence with the then JLRA chief and the upshot was that they were not willing to concede ANY goodwill even though my TDV6 had been only serviced by LR dealers. JLRA did make the point that my vehicle was well beyond the 3 years and 100 000 km warranty period.
I was displeased with the company's response as I had mostly elected to have the oil and filters changed at 6000 km (instead of 12 000). This was because I did a more urban than country driving.
When it failed my engine had just done 142 000 km so I took it from the dealer to an independent where they provided a cheaper quote (both parts and labour). On advice from the independent I replaced the turbo and whilst the body was off upgraded the EAS compressor to the AMK version (no problems since with it).
Total cost $21 000 odd and am I happy? With the vehicle - YES; with Land Rover's reluctance to assist in any form - NO. PM me for further details if you want.LeighW
The old girl is on her third engine...
* first ran a bearing (design failure in original engine)
* second had a failure of the water outlet on top of the engine (pls check yours)
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
| 08MY Discovery 3 (history) 
