Good on the old chap AFAIC. Whilst he had to go through due process I really do hope that common sense prevails & that there’s no case to answer. Scrote wasn’t invited in, shouldn’ Have been there & therefore a threat in my eyes.Paul.
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4th Apr 2018 2:43 pm
terryall
Member Since: 17 Jun 2011
Location: Whitstable
Posts: 1429
This 78 yr old live around the corner from me in a quiet residential road. I was watching the police helicopter hovering nearby and heard the sirens going mad. Did they catch the second scum bag?
4th Apr 2018 3:05 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23368
I don't know all the details, but from what's in the press I'm certain that it will be deemed self defence. Police have to follow procedure to the letter, or possibly risk being sued by the relatives of the burglar that died and whatever other associated nonsense.
A friend was involved in an incident with similarities, but it was his car not his house and he didn't kill the scrote who had broken into his car to steal his fishing tackle. Said scrote was "worse for wear" though, after the ensuing skirmish.
My friend was arrested, but the Police were extremely sympathetic and guided him (off the record) on what to say and not to say in his statement. They understandably had no sympathy for the scrote who was well known to them.
Despite the scrote's protestations, the CPS didn't take it any further.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
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4th Apr 2018 3:20 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
ammac wrote:
I thought that if you were involved in a crime or potential crime that you had to be arrested first to protect your legal rights as you can only be interviewed with legal representation and on tape. The days of "Helping with Police enquiries" are long gone.
If that was the case then every armed police officer / soldier / sailor / airman would be instantly arrested for murder as soon as the noise stopped.
Quote:
The revised Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (PACE), Code G (implementation date 12th November 2012) demands more detailed consideration by arresting officers of the necessity to arrest than has previously been the case. Increased emphasis is placed on the use of alternatives to arrest, such as the use of street bail and, specifically from an interview perspective, the use of voluntary interviews under caution.
The implications of arrest on an individual even if no prosecution follows can be significant, including loss of reputation and reduced employment opportunities as a result of the arrest record appearing on enhanced Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) checks. The revision of PACE Code G was driven by a desire to prevent the unnecessary arrest of persons such as householders and others who use reasonable force in self defence and concerns about the position of teachers/school staff facing allegations connected with their employment. Case law has also evolved surrounding the necessity to arrest criteria which the revised Code G consolidates. Further drivers to increase the use of alternatives to arrest have come from within the UK police service itself.
The elements of a lawful arrest are that the arresting officer must have:
(1)Reasonable grounds to suspect an offence has been committed and that the person has committed it; AND
(2)Reasonable grounds to believe that arrest is necessary for one or more of the specified reasons to
a) Ascertain the persons name
b) Ascertain the persons address
c) Prevent physical harm to self or another or suffering physical injury
d) Prevent loss of or damage to property
e) Prevent an offence against public decency
f) Preventanunlawfulobstructionofthehighway
g) Protect a child or vulnerable person
h) Prevent any prosecution being hindered by the disappearance of the
person in question
i) Allow a prompt and effective investigation of the offence or of the
conduct of the person in question.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 26 Apr 2011
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 2990
Hope his stint in the police station goes smoothly. God help them if he dies due to heart attack brought on by stress.
4th Apr 2018 5:51 pm
gje
Member Since: 09 Mar 2014
Location: world
Posts: 488
A death has occured so:
"Allow a prompt and effective investigation of the offence or of the
conduct of the person in question. "
As much as it sounds like self defense, the dead cannot give verbal evidence or a statement.
4th Apr 2018 6:01 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
You have to satisfy the first requirement before selecting a reason from the second though.
This case is interesting as the revision to PACE specifically referred to this scenario as an example where an arrest would not be appropriate:
Quote:
The revision of PACE Code G was driven by a desire to prevent the unnecessary arrest of persons such as householders and others who use reasonable force in self defence
There has to be something more behind this arrest, otherwise the police have dropped a clanger. Both intruders were clearly alive when they made off, with the deceased collapsing a distance away.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13107
The self defence bit might be determined, initially, by where the screwdriver wound is. If it's in the scrote's back, the Police might be concerned that he was attacked whilst fleeing. That wouldn't be self defence. Of course, we all know, as the Police do too, that in a grappling brawl, an injury can easily happen in the back or the front. Until they've established this, however, there are presumably grounds for suspicion of manslaughter/attempted murder - even if the Police on the ground have sympathy for the old chap.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
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5th Apr 2018 1:58 pm
Rescue01
Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 2432
gje wrote:
A death has occured so:
"Allow a prompt and effective investigation of the offence or of the
conduct of the person in question. "
As much as it sounds like self defense, the dead cannot give verbal evidence or a statement.
So let not the undead yet not break into someone's home.Its not the height of the fall but the sudden stop at the bottom that hurts!!
5th Apr 2018 3:23 pm
lynalldiscovery
Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274
News say the guy has been let out on bail, which is good news
5th Apr 2018 5:21 pm
Dave T
Member Since: 03 Jul 2009
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 6902
Rescue01 wrote:
gje wrote:
A death has occured so:
"Allow a prompt and effective investigation of the offence or of the
conduct of the person in question. "
As much as it sounds like self defense, the dead cannot give verbal evidence or a statement.
So let not the undead yet not break into someone's home.
As soon as you break into someone’s property you should lose all rights. Joined the BMWX5 45e group
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5th Apr 2018 5:24 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72787
He’ll no doubt be missed by someone, just not by any of his victims.
5th Apr 2018 5:44 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
Apparently wanted for similar jobs on the elderly in Kent.21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
5th Apr 2018 5:46 pm
gje
Member Since: 09 Mar 2014
Location: world
Posts: 488
"Reasonable grounds to suspect an offence has been committed and that the person has committed it; AND
(2)Reasonable grounds to believe that arrest is necessary for one or more of the specified reasons to
a) Ascertain the persons name
b) Ascertain the persons address
c) Prevent physical harm to self or another or suffering physical injury
d) Prevent loss of or damage to property
e) Prevent an offence against public decency
f) Preventanunlawfulobstructionofthehighway
g) Protect a child or vulnerable person
h) Prevent any prosecution being hindered by the disappearance of the
person in question
i) Allow a prompt and effective investigation of the offence
Also consider the following:
Code G requires officers to consider other practical alternatives to arrest such as
use of street bail to compel the suspected person to attend a police station at a
later time and date for interview or the use of voluntary attendance to conduct
the interview. Specifically the Code states an officer who believes it is necessary
to interview a person suspected of committing an offence must consider whether
their arrest is necessary to carry out the interview.
The use of the word ‘consider’ is important and does not suggest that a decision not to arrest should automatically be taken.
Interviewing a suspect is a main line of enquiry and is rarely unnecessary in any
investigation. Not only does an interview allow the gathering of
material/evidence by questioning the suspect (including developing adverse
inference from no comment responses and lies), it also allows the interviewee an
opportunity to put forward any defence and offer an explanation including any
admissions and mitigation.
Nothing in Code G reduces the significance of a suspect’s interview as forming
part of a prompt and effective investigation;
I would suggest that both requirements have been 'met' - dead male 1 found in street away from premises, premises occ says I did it = evidence of at least an assault ( whether lawful use of force or not) has taken place & further evidence ( more than merely an explanation of the facts) can be gained by questioning the premises occ, plus allows for forensic exam in clothing body etc of occ.
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