Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Not sure what Priti and Boris can say - they effectively signalled the end of her career when they decided to get rid before baulking at the mostly likely candidate to replace her. Not wanting him led directly to her extension in the appointment. Not exactly the best of reasons to have her in post.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Amazing that the Mayor of London seems to have more influence than The Home Secretary.
Well it's not actually is it?
When it comes to Policing in London, the Mayor of London has had ultimate oversight of the Met since 2012.
The Mayor's Office for Policing and Crime (MOPaC) has executive powers over the Met. MOPaC is part of the Greater London Authority, and the executive to that body is the Mayor.
Dick's future was been in Khan's hands since 2016, not Johnson's. Remember it was Johnson who Khan also appointed her in his role of Mayor of London - She was not appointed by any parliamentary or ministerial role.
EDIT @19:04: It was Khan who appointed her. Shows how media messaging around the links between Dick and Johnson can skew memory, which is embarrassing as I was working for the Met at the time of her appointment. I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
Last edited by NoDo$h on 11th Feb 2022 8:05 pm. Edited 2 times in total
You managed to get "Dick" and "Johnson" into a single sentence. Well done!
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11th Feb 2022 3:02 pm
Oxford-boy
Member Since: 07 Sep 2015
Location: Oxford
Posts: 1063
Robbie wrote:
Farmer Chalk wrote:
It was a tragic incident… but not one that should blight her for the right decision made at the time.
I respectfully disagree and that is said as someone involved in that community for a good while and knows the pressures of leading an ops room as well as knowing some of those involved.
In no way or circumstances were the guys on the ground at fault and I was aghast but not surprised that the light fell on them.
When the primary asset, with all their skills, knowledge, training, put in place for that specific task on a deliberate op, fails to make a positive ID at normal contact then the presumption for everything else evaporates there and then.
In no way should any potential ID made at speed, by others, under pressure, ever be used to overcome the original doubt of the primary asset. She made a very bad and lethal call that went against SOPs. Somehow that was not fully understood by those legally reviewing her actions.
When you lead an ops room there is no confusion, only leadership - a lack of positive ID by the in-place asset = no direct action. It is just the way it is. Being caught-up in the moment and the confusion was her culpable mistake - it should have never have become the excuse. Somehow the criticality of the initial lack of positive ID fell out of her head.
As a result, an entirely innocent man was executed here in the UK under her orders alone. 'Doubt' is an actionable state and not something to overcome at speed by those who are unprepared.
A personal opinion no doubt but one from someone who appreciates what has to be in place before exercising lethal force, even if it puts your own people at risk. 'Courageous restraint' is a terrible phrase but the meaning underneath it underpins the UK use of lethal force both at home and on operations abroad.
Spot on..
Jim
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11th Feb 2022 3:16 pm
JordsDisco
Member Since: 22 May 2020
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 1487
The Police and other services are filled with individuals who’s desire to move up the ladder to is their sole motivation. They are neither skilled nor able motivational leaders, but are seemingly able to leave their peers in their wake.
No amount of balances and checks will ever eradicate them. These processes are merely window dressing to justify promoting them. They are the product of a nepotistic society where we value friendship and networking above skill and ability. Where we value a certain profile, be it gender, ethnicity or sexual persuasion or a combination of these traits, over ignoring these factors and just promoting the best person for the job.
I’ve known people in the Police who were intelligent, articulate, credible and had that elusive ingredient, complete and utter integrity, who through no fault of their own, we’re never allowed to realised their full potential, what a complete and utter waste of an individual. What a waste to the job.
Unfortunately, I have also known many whom weren’t fit to polish these officers boots, make it to the top. You can tell the types, they litter Facebook and similar forums, even when retired, displaying their profile with their former rank. They have pride in that, it’s all that matters, it’s just a pity it wasn’t deserved in the majority of cases. I can see Cressida Dick joining their ranks. The Met is better off without her, maybe it would have been better off never knowing her and her likes.
You managed to get "Dick" and "Johnson" into a single sentence. Well done!
Knobody who knows me would expect any less I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
11th Feb 2022 7:47 pm
galwaygreen
Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: plymouth
Posts: 6525
I gather she is gay...like many others in top jobs...nothing like this in my day,,but guess thats the way the world is going...think we had the best of it...no sure how the future pans out...best of luck
12th Feb 2022 1:14 am
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13912
So what you’re saying is that back in ‘your day’ leaders were better because they weren’t gay?
How does sexuality relate to performance?New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
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12th Feb 2022 1:33 am
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23369
Robbie wrote:
Farmer Chalk wrote:
It was a tragic incident… but not one that should blight her for the right decision made at the time.
I respectfully disagree and that is said as someone involved in that community for a good while and knows the pressures of leading an ops room as well as knowing some of those involved.
In no way or circumstances were the guys on the ground at fault and I was aghast but not surprised that the light fell on them.
When the primary asset, with all their skills, knowledge, training, put in place for that specific task on a deliberate op, fails to make a positive ID at normal contact then the presumption for everything else evaporates there and then.
In no way should any potential ID made at speed, by others, under pressure, ever be used to overcome the original doubt of the primary asset. She made a very bad and lethal call that went against SOPs. Somehow that was not fully understood by those legally reviewing her actions.
When you lead an ops room there is no confusion, only leadership - a lack of positive ID by the in-place asset = no direct action. It is just the way it is. Being caught-up in the moment and the confusion was her culpable mistake - it should have never have become the excuse. Somehow the criticality of the initial lack of positive ID fell out of her head.
As a result, an entirely innocent man was executed here in the UK under her orders alone. 'Doubt' is an actionable state and not something to overcome at speed by those who are unprepared.
A personal opinion no doubt but one from someone who appreciates what has to be in place before exercising lethal force, even if it puts your own people at risk. 'Courageous restraint' is a terrible phrase but the meaning underneath it underpins the UK use of lethal force both at home and on operations abroad.
Menezes was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder at close range and died at the scene. I’ve never understood why that was necessary or appropriate and why he couldn’t have been detained or even disabled with less “force”.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
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I remember a colleague who had had a military career before moving into IT saying that it was the approach taken in those days if the target was believed to have explosives on them.
He held the view the errors were in the handling of the operations, i.e. CD's response..
Dean
====================================
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12th Feb 2022 8:26 am
kajtzu
Member Since: 11 Aug 2017
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 6575
galwaygreen wrote:
I gather she is gay...like many others in top jobs...nothing like this in my day,,but guess thats the way the world is going...think we had the best of it...no sure how the future pans out...best of luck
Who cares? Does her preferences make her worse in her job? As a human? I’m guessing…. Probably not to both.
What consenting adults do in private is their private business. Not ours nor the media’s.
“Back in the day” people, on average, were probably just as gay except they were deeply in the closet because of social stigmas.
12th Feb 2022 10:18 am
Bardley
Member Since: 02 May 2018
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 441
LT wrote:
Robbie wrote:
Farmer Chalk wrote:
It was a tragic incident… but not one that should blight her for the right decision made at the time.
I respectfully disagree and that is said as someone involved in that community for a good while and knows the pressures of leading an ops room as well as knowing some of those involved.
In no way or circumstances were the guys on the ground at fault and I was aghast but not surprised that the light fell on them.
When the primary asset, with all their skills, knowledge, training, put in place for that specific task on a deliberate op, fails to make a positive ID at normal contact then the presumption for everything else evaporates there and then.
In no way should any potential ID made at speed, by others, under pressure, ever be used to overcome the original doubt of the primary asset. She made a very bad and lethal call that went against SOPs. Somehow that was not fully understood by those legally reviewing her actions.
When you lead an ops room there is no confusion, only leadership - a lack of positive ID by the in-place asset = no direct action. It is just the way it is. Being caught-up in the moment and the confusion was her culpable mistake - it should have never have become the excuse. Somehow the criticality of the initial lack of positive ID fell out of her head.
As a result, an entirely innocent man was executed here in the UK under her orders alone. 'Doubt' is an actionable state and not something to overcome at speed by those who are unprepared.
A personal opinion no doubt but one from someone who appreciates what has to be in place before exercising lethal force, even if it puts your own people at risk. 'Courageous restraint' is a terrible phrase but the meaning underneath it underpins the UK use of lethal force both at home and on operations abroad.
Menezes was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder at close range and died at the scene. I’ve never understood why that was necessary or appropriate and why he couldn’t have been detained or even disabled with less “force”.
There were reasons as to why he had to be disabled immediately. Fears of a subject being able to cause harm with catastrophic consequences being the main one.
Not everyone puts their hands up with the phrase 'it's a fair cop guv'.2011 MY D4 HSE
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12th Feb 2022 10:49 am
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23369
Which required seven head shots at virtually point blank?
The Met were subsequently found to have made catastrophic errors that led to Menezes being publicly executed.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
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12th Feb 2022 11:26 am
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13107
galwaygreen wrote:
I gather she is gay...like many others in top jobs...nothing like this in my day,,but guess thats the way the world is going...think we had the best of it...no sure how the future pans out...best of luck
"In your day" there were plenty of gay people in positions of power. It's just that they didn't tell anyone because it was frowned upon (or worse).
Clue in many obituaries: "He was a confirmed bachelor who preferred the company of men to family matters" or similar.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
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"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
12th Feb 2022 11:54 am
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13107
LT wrote:
Which required seven head shots at virtually point blank?
The Met were subsequently found to have made catastrophic errors that led to Menezes being publicly executed.
If you absolutely must stop someone from, for example, exploding a rucksack bomb, then head shots are what is required. A leg shot would debilitate the target but wouldn't necessarily do enough to prevent a bomb being set off.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
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