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OneCent
Member Since: 06 Aug 2009
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 5
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Is there a reason LR only sells the V8 in the USA? Is there really no demand for the new 3l Diesel? I mean the V8 are nice, but 17-19 mpg are......
I think the only reason is that we dont reimport the LR4 from the States 
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 25th Oct 2009 1:02 pm |
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TazDaz
Member Since: 07 May 2007
Location: South East Essex
Posts: 2858
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ISTR it's something to do with NOx emissions standards in the USA
Perhaps one of our across-the-pond cousins can answer this better
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| 25th Oct 2009 1:59 pm |
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fat bloke
Member Since: 07 Aug 2006
Location: OXFORD
Posts: 1243
 
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Perhaps it's the quaitiy of diesel as a tech at bmw stated that is the reason why the mini was only petrol until better quaitity fuel came in as newer engines could not handle the poor state of diesel so perhaps this applies to L/R....
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| 25th Oct 2009 2:27 pm |
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DiscoDunc
Member Since: 08 May 2006
Location: Bristol
Posts: 16390
 
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I thought Land Rover were built to run all over the world  Duncan
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If I'd known I was going to be so thirsty this morning I'd have drunk more beer last night.
FFRR Autobiography 4.4 SDV8 MY17
D4 HSE MY13 SOLD
FFRR 3.6 Vogue TDV8 SOLD
D4 HSE MY10 SOLD
D4 SE TECH MY15 SOLD
D4 XS MY12 SOLD
D4 HSE MY10 SOLD
D3 HSE MY06 - Re-Cycled Worldwide
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| 25th Oct 2009 2:30 pm |
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daveyb
Member Since: 14 Oct 2007
Location: SF
Posts: 135
  
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Ahhhh. The DEMAND is incredible! It's the Legislators who won't let us get our hands on the TDV6. Emissions issues. California is the most stringent on this issue. Everyone here hugs trees, pets wild animals, eats Avocado and sips Starbucks from recycled hemp cups. Plus, at 13mpg w/ the petrol, we have to fuel up much more generating additional Taxation monies for the State. Less fill-ups equal less revenue for the State. Crazy world we have over here. 2006 D3 Tonga Green
275/65/18 GY DuraTracs - ARB w/ EP9.0 - Sasquatch Rods
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| 25th Oct 2009 3:29 pm |
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uspurs
Member Since: 14 Dec 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 9
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It's a bit of a puzzle why more diesels (cars / SUVs) aren't available in the US - off the top of my head, I can think of a couple of Audis (A3 & Q7), a couple of VWs (Jetta & Touareg), a couple of BMWs (335D & X5) and Mercedes (E series, ML series, ...); there isn't a US 'domestic' (Ford, GM, Chrysler - though I think the latter may have had a Jeep and you can buy diesel pickups from all 3, I believe) diesel available and there are none offered by the Korean or Japanese makers.
I can think of factors that might contribute to this situation:
1) Certain states - including California - only recently ('08, I think) permitted diesel cars to be sold, after a gap of several years, because of emissions concerns
2) Low sulphur diesel became available only a couple of years ago - there were emissions concerns prior to that
3) State Tax on diesel - as it's used mainly by the commercial transport market - is significantly higher than on petrol
4) Price - last year, at least, the shortage of refining capacity forced the price of diesel up quite dramatically; combined with point 3, diesel in certain states was priced significantly higher - 10-20% - than regular 87 octane
5) People looking for fuel economy head for the hybrids, as there is (or was) a USD1500 tax deduction available
6) Perception - diesel is smelly / dirty / dangerous (carcinogens)
7) The price of gas has gone way down from last year and so people aren't quite so sensitive to fuel economy
Leaving all that aside, and looking at the LR situation - I think a V8 diesel would sell here, but whether in enough volume to make its certification worthwhile is another story. If companies such as Honda, Subaru & Toyota don't consider it'll work, with their volumes ........
Oh, and don't forget that a US gallon is about 3.8l and imperial is 4.4l (I think) - so the fuel consumption of the V8 really isn't that bad for a car this size; we use our LR3 for a weekly round-trip drive of about 250 miles on a dual carriageway parkway - pretty hilly, keeping to about 60mph and regularly get a real 20-22mpg (which would be 23-25 in the UK).
What would be a help, cost-wise, is if we could run on 'regular' (87) gas here - LR specifies 91, which isn't that readily available, so we end up using 93; yesterday's price for 93, in this area, was USD2.95 against USD2.60 for 87.
And you're right - at that price, compared to Europe, it's almost free! Not sure I could afford to run an LR3 back in the UK.
Regards, John
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| 25th Oct 2009 3:29 pm |
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OneCent
Member Since: 06 Aug 2009
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 5
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Oh, emission problems. Wow, did not think that a Euro 5 Engine would have problems. The US Prices are very interesting, but the V8 just needs too much gas - around 50% (9.4 vs. 15) more then the diesel. But when i see that a LR4 is around 60k $.. and here we pay 90k $.
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| 25th Oct 2009 5:35 pm |
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uspurs
Member Since: 14 Dec 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 9
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Unnecessary quote removed
I think it was a combination of poor quality diesel fuel and emissions - the introduction of low sulphur fuel and the latest generation diesels (Bluetec, for example) seem to have got past the emissions objections.
Re the V8 using too much gas compared to the diesel, you're right - I just think that we have a different reality here and that gas / petrol being relatively cheap (in absolute terms) dulls the sensitivity to fuel efficiency.
I suspect the LR3 V8 is actually one of the more fuel efficient SUVs and, compared to prices elsewhere, is quite a bargain!
Regards, John
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| 25th Oct 2009 6:22 pm |
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Jonty
Member Since: 13 Oct 2007
Location: On the beach
Posts: 417
  
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The 3.0tdv6 meets all US emissions requirements, but there is an issue with diesel availabilty in California. It's lack of availability is purely down to LR marketing in the US. Just another case of the marketers (?) not knowing what the customers want. They probably see diesel as being less upmarket or 'dirty', who knows? Same story at Toyota - you can get the 5.7V8 petrol Landcruiser, but no diesel.
The German companies have realised that Americans will buy diesels and introduced quite a few models.
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| 25th Oct 2009 7:46 pm |
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DingMark
Member Since: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Perth Oz or Erbil, Iraq
Posts: 388
 
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I seem to recall that in the mid-1970's GM just changed the heads and pistons on the venerable 350 V8 (and an Olds 260 V8?!) to convert to diesel quickly during the first oil crisis. The inevitable result was huge problems with durability, the fuel lines got cold and coagulated (they ran in front of the engine just like gasoline fueled engines so it got gluggy when below 0F) and smoked to boot. I had a friend in Colorado who had one when I lived there and his car wouldn't even make it over the mountain passes (no turbo, 3 speed auto=not enough grunt at altitude).
As others mentioned since that time US diesel has had a very high sulphur content and other cruddy nasties in it, relative to Europe, Oz, etc. The result has been a long-term view that diesel cars cause more problems than they solve. A bad reputation can take decades to overcome. In Europe taxes and clean fuels accelerated diesel acceptance. Here when the fuel was finally cleaned up about 6 yrs ago, there were enough of us who'd driven diesels in Europe and were ready to change. Cold fuel problems aren't much of a concern here in Oz (31C here in Perth yesterday  )
(Disclosure Notice: I happen to have the V8 as it was A$18k less than a diesel at the time, not because of the above. So far I've spent about 10% of the price differential on extra fuel. My wife's 5 yr old car is a diesel and we're delighted with it.) Jim Dowell - D4 HSE TDi, 12,000 hydraulic winch & hidden winch mount, MTRs, TyreDog, Traxide 2 x aux battery system, fixed air compressor, Dolium roof rack, MitchHitch.
RIP 2005 D3 HSE V8 5 seater gold (stolen and torched)
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| 26th Oct 2009 9:13 am |
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bgsntth
Member Since: 27 Sep 2007
Location: Marin, CA
Posts: 23
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I would dearly like to get back into a LR4 when the lease on the GTS is up, the latter being my last harrah in glorious consumption. The TDV8 or 3L would be ideal. LRNA has to do something - quick, as it is going to be very difficult for them to meet 2016 CAFE standards.
Dan Neil has a great review of the new FFRR S\C, but also discusses the situation.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-neil...349.column '06 LR3 V8 SE - recently returned on lease end
'08 FFRR
'09 Cayenne GTS - Manual w/ PDCC
'07 Cayman (gone unfortunately)
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| 29th Oct 2009 9:28 pm |
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mwestcrew
Member Since: 24 May 2005
Location: Warwickshire
Posts: 334
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That's a great review, very smart language. And interesting regarding the CAFE and 2016, but that's a whole lot of conjecture. I am sure LR would love to have the absolute certainty of even still being around in 2016.  2011 D4 Landmark, Mini Cooper SD Clubman, Range Rover Vogue SE
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| 29th Oct 2009 10:14 pm |
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DiscoStu
Member Since: 09 Apr 2006
Location: London
Posts: 11412
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Mexico: Ford Inaugurates Chihuahua V8 Engine Plant
30 Nov 09, AUTOMOTIVEWORLD.COM, John Mortimer
MEXICO - Ford this month (November) officially inaugurated its new V8 diesel engine facility at the Chihuahua Engine Plant (CEP), Mexico, where the US company plans to invest US$838m, creating 1,100 direct employees and 3,000 indirect jobs. The investment is part of US$3bn the company will invest in Mexico over the next three years.
The new facility, with three machining lines and two assembly lines, will produce some 200,000 Scorpion 6.7-litre V8 diesel engines and 4.4-litre V8 diesels for use in light-duty trucks. This number increases the potential of the plant to 428,000 engines a year.
Much of the component machining equipment was supplied by MAG Industrial Automation Systems of Sterling Heights, Michigan.
Of the output of 200,000 units, some 170,000 units will take the form of Scorpion engines that will appear in Ford F-Series trucks next year. All of the output of the plant will be exported, the majority to the US, with the remainder going to the UK.
Engines destined for the UK will go to Jaguar Land Rover, predominantly for use in 4x4 vehicles. JLR’s take could be in the region of 20,000 to 40,000 a year.
Ford has been in Mexico since 1925 and employs 4,500 people. In addition to the engine plant, Ford has a plant in Hermosillo, Chihuahua, dedicated to stamping and assembly. Ford Mexico’s headquarters are in Mexico City. Disco 5 HSE Lux
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peyiqaJrmMU
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| 22nd Dec 2009 10:26 am |
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PaulP
Member Since: 04 May 2007
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 4317
 
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I've been waiting for news about what they would do with the 3.6 TDV8 since they upped the TDV6 from 2.7 to 3.0...
Upping the TDV8 to 4.4 litres would probably give it around 350bhp.....cool  2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Buckingham Blue
2007 Golf GT DSG
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| 22nd Dec 2009 10:43 am |
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