Member Since: 25 Oct 2010
Location: Pretoria and Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 188
Fatboy Slim wrote:
Hi Fatboy
did you ever reply to my email of 25th July?
kind regards
GeorgeEX AFRICA SEMPER ALIQUID NOVI
SEMPER IN FAECIBUS SUMUS SOLE, PROFUNDUM VARIAT
with kind regards
George Bosch
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
2003 Range Rover Td6
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi (sold)
And some more serious stuff
16th Sep 2016 9:54 pm
fqpvr6
Member Since: 29 Aug 2016
Location: Turin
Posts: 9
MGCarr wrote:
Just out of curiosity does anyone know if the crankshafts usually fail in the same place?
If the cranks snap in all cases in exactly at the same place when fitted with an auto box, and speaking as a mechanical engineer by trade (who owns a 2.7 TDV6 Disco 3 yet to seize), the evidence seems to suggest towards a design flaw of the crank. The "sizing" of the crank was not done correctly when coupled to a geometry based high stress concentration (i.e, Kt). I also think there may be an harmonic resonant excitation frequency that may be excited only when the crankshaft/engine is coupled to the AUTO box.
I would love to have an engineers' talk with the guy who designed this thing and see what kind of stress and modal analysis has been done and validation testing performed prior to design release to manufacturing, Most likely very minimal analysis, or a complete miss to include all possible engine/transmission combinations in their models.
Thanks, and best of luck to all of us.... I work in the aviation business and I can confirm that in our business, the 'engineers' first concern is safety of the product and ensuring its proper function during all certification conditions. An obvious design issue like this one which has been going on for years and has yet to be addressed properly by the parent company is an unacceptable behavior towards the customer. I am quite sure that by now someone at Ford or PSA or who ever has design responsibility for this engine component knows exactly what the issue is. What is not acceptable is that a proper solution or mitigation has been given to the customers who own it, so that they have peace of mind and may remain loyal to the brand.
27th Sep 2016 10:41 pm
hgbosch
Member Since: 25 Oct 2010
Location: Pretoria and Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 188
Hi fqpvr6
In my mind you are spot on with your take on this issue. I have stated that back in 2012 already, when the first occurrences started popping up in SA.
The issue has not been solved, not even with the change in engine from the 2.7 to the 3.0 and twin turbo design.
Lets see how many more of these mills need to pop, before JLR will start to take the necessary steps to rectify.
You were quite correct with your comments about the pre-release testing of components in the aviation industry. Had the same criteria been applied to the D3/D4 and RRS models, then all these vehicles would have had their "CoA" or in this case CoR" rescinded, i.e. "grounded".
But I am still waiting for an answer from the prominent UK indies, if there were any incidences of 5A and 6A TDV6's with snapped cranks, but bearings intact.EX AFRICA SEMPER ALIQUID NOVI
SEMPER IN FAECIBUS SUMUS SOLE, PROFUNDUM VARIAT
with kind regards
George Bosch
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
2003 Range Rover Td6
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi (sold)
And some more serious stuff
28th Sep 2016 8:14 am
al cope
Member Since: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Oldbury, WM
Posts: 10299
But its a different industry with different risk criteria. In aviation, if something breaks, a plane falls out of the sky, people die. For JLR if a crank snaps, its one of customer, nothing more. Even quite a few failing with associated costs, its nothing to what they've made from selling thousands of the things.
Not want you want to hear if you have a broken one, but thats how it is.
AlVolvo XC90 B5 Plus Dark
Gone - MY18 D5 HSE - Corris on 22's with Black Pack
Now gone - MY16 D4 SE Tech, Loire Blue, Almond Leather, Privacy, plus some other goodies.
Old - MY12 D4 SDV6 XS Auto - Ipanema Sand with Almond Leather - Plus other niceties, and D4.com sticker
Older - D3 TDV6 XS Auto - Lugano Teal with Almond Leather, 20" Stormers, Shiny Tailpipes, DVD/TV - and obligatory D3 sticker
Ancient - D3 TDV6 S - Tonga with Ebony, 20" Stormers, satnav & DVD
28th Sep 2016 9:16 am
hgbosch
Member Since: 25 Oct 2010
Location: Pretoria and Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 188
Hi al
you are naturally right. But then if a plane has fatal flaw, all hell breaks loose and the type/model is grounded, full stop. But when such a thing happens to a motor car, well........EX AFRICA SEMPER ALIQUID NOVI
SEMPER IN FAECIBUS SUMUS SOLE, PROFUNDUM VARIAT
with kind regards
George Bosch
2005 Disco3 TDV6 S
2003 Range Rover Td6
1998 Disco1 ES 300Tdi (sold)
And some more serious stuff
28th Sep 2016 10:22 am
al cope
Member Since: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Oldbury, WM
Posts: 10299
yep, i agree, but car manufacturers approach things like this in a very different way to a plane maker. Its only when Brand reputation looks like it will be affected will they do something. Just look at VW or Toyota.
AlVolvo XC90 B5 Plus Dark
Gone - MY18 D5 HSE - Corris on 22's with Black Pack
Now gone - MY16 D4 SE Tech, Loire Blue, Almond Leather, Privacy, plus some other goodies.
Old - MY12 D4 SDV6 XS Auto - Ipanema Sand with Almond Leather - Plus other niceties, and D4.com sticker
Older - D3 TDV6 XS Auto - Lugano Teal with Almond Leather, 20" Stormers, Shiny Tailpipes, DVD/TV - and obligatory D3 sticker
Ancient - D3 TDV6 S - Tonga with Ebony, 20" Stormers, satnav & DVD
29th Sep 2016 8:32 am
dgardel
Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: Greater Venice
Posts: 2025
fqpvr6 wrote:
MGCarr wrote:
Just out of curiosity does anyone know if the crankshafts usually fail in the same place?
If the cranks snap in all cases in exactly at the same place when fitted with an auto box, and speaking as a mechanical engineer by trade (who owns a 2.7 TDV6 Disco 3 yet to seize), the evidence seems to suggest towards a design flaw of the crank. The "sizing" of the crank was not done correctly when coupled to a geometry based high stress concentration (i.e, Kt). I also think there may be an harmonic resonant excitation frequency that may be excited only when the crankshaft/engine is coupled to the AUTO box.
I would love to have an engineers' talk with the guy who designed this thing and see what kind of stress and modal analysis has been done and validation testing performed prior to design release to manufacturing, Most likely very minimal analysis, or a complete miss to include all possible engine/transmission combinations in their models.
Thanks, and best of luck to all of us.... I work in the aviation business and I can confirm that in our business, the 'engineers' first concern is safety of the product and ensuring its proper function during all certification conditions. An obvious design issue like this one which has been going on for years and has yet to be addressed properly by the parent company is an unacceptable behavior towards the customer. I am quite sure that by now someone at Ford or PSA or who ever has design responsibility for this engine component knows exactly what the issue is. What is not acceptable is that a proper solution or mitigation has been given to the customers who own it, so that they have peace of mind and may remain loyal to the brand.
Member Since: 10 Sep 2011
Location: gloucester
Posts: 685
You are not going to believe this ive booked a D4 for a visit up to inverness late feb , they only phoned me to say the D4 I was ear mark 't , the engine as seized 99% sure its the crank .
And would I be happy in having a defender instead .
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of customer, nothing more. Even quite a few failing with associated costs, its nothing to what they've made from selling thousands of the things.
