Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50949
The point is there are undeniably jack collapses but what causes them is a matter of debate from all perspectives. If it is confirmed as a manufacturing fault then why in all this time hasn't it been raised officially ..a campaign ...or are LR thinking its cheaper to payout for damage ...not heard of any injuries until Redgulls bash on the head 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
Someone has had 10 years to get hurt ....any sign yet ? Meanwhile 200 people have died getting out of bed ...are we banning beds ?
sorry to disagree DG.
If the issue was wear...i.e. the jack had been used a million times OK...it probably hasn't....I have oiled my jack to death...
BUT I won't know just when it decides to abide with gravity & let my Disco hit the deck
WITHOUT WARNING
btw..when it does this it will be with whatever is underneath
...wheel still on (OK)...lucky break day
...wheel not on (not OK)...unlucky break day...you damage your D3/4
....me or somebody else underneath (definitely NOT OK) ....emergency services / hospital / undertaker job...
I cant understand the term emergency use
...so you have a jack not bought / actually on the vehicle / provided by you
as opposed to having a jack fit for unfit for purpose / not strong enough / very likely to collapse by virtue the poor design, unfit construction etc...made & supplied with the vehicle by the makers
how can this stance / position / situation be avoided by Land Rover...?
being smart / experienced / knowledgeable doesn't apply here
.....its either up OK or down not OKBREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
8th Jun 2014 8:43 pm
Narpy
Member Since: 18 Jul 2011
Location: Stockport
Posts: 7830
You're wasting your time, Kens dog has spoken. Mods:
Front Fogs + Halos
FBH Remote Control
The 1st Ever RRS Modded Grill
Garmin Nuvi + D4 Surround + Reversing Camera.
D4 Steering Wheel.
Rear Boot Spoiler.
Twin Brake Lights.
Wing Mirror Indicator Repeaters.
Long Roof Rails
Make your own Narpy grill thread
I'm not scared, I'm outta here.
8th Jun 2014 8:45 pm
Ken
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 10865
Narpy that was at DG
8th Jun 2014 8:48 pm
DG Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50949
BLFarrar wrote:
how can this stance / position / situation be avoided by Land Rover...?
Well Bruce why not raise it (excuse the pun) with Pete on here 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
8th Jun 2014 8:50 pm
Narpy
Member Since: 18 Jul 2011
Location: Stockport
Posts: 7830
Oh sorry Ken, I thought the dog was responsible for your posts tonight. Mods:
Front Fogs + Halos
FBH Remote Control
The 1st Ever RRS Modded Grill
Garmin Nuvi + D4 Surround + Reversing Camera.
D4 Steering Wheel.
Rear Boot Spoiler.
Twin Brake Lights.
Wing Mirror Indicator Repeaters.
Long Roof Rails
Make your own Narpy grill thread
I'm not scared, I'm outta here.
8th Jun 2014 8:50 pm
Nobby
Member Since: 27 Oct 2008
Location: Harrogate
Posts: 78
Emergency Use Only
Late to the party again, but shouldn't anything that's meant for 'Emergency Use Only' actually work.......Fire Extinguishers come to mind 90 Defender(Daughter driving at the mo)
Mini Cooper SD Convertible (wife thing)
BMW R1200GSA LC
VW Transporter 4Motion
1982 Yamaha TR1
1985 Honda FT500
Triumph Street Twin
KTM390 Duke
Honda VFR800
8th Jun 2014 9:32 pm
Russell
Member Since: 24 Aug 2007
Location: Kent
Posts: 10564
How many dry powder fire extinguishers actually work??????
A lot do not MY17 D5 1st Edition Namib Orange
MY15 D4 HSE Kaikoura Stone
MY12 D4 HSE Nara Bronze Sold and gone
MY11 D4 HSE Stornaway Grey Sold and gone
D3 S spec Silver Sold and gone
Tow bar, full length roof bars, side steps, tow bar storage unit, surround camers.
D4 camera club
8th Jun 2014 9:39 pm
Nobby
Member Since: 27 Oct 2008
Location: Harrogate
Posts: 78
....................Oh , I'll just go check the one in the garage...................Yep it works 90 Defender(Daughter driving at the mo)
Mini Cooper SD Convertible (wife thing)
BMW R1200GSA LC
VW Transporter 4Motion
1982 Yamaha TR1
1985 Honda FT500
Triumph Street Twin
KTM390 Duke
Honda VFR800
8th Jun 2014 10:12 pm
Apache
Member Since: 17 Oct 2011
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 691
If you are using the jack in a safe way then you would not come to any harm if it did fail.
I always crack nuts on the ground and chuck either the spare wheel or an axle stand under the sill before taking off the wheel.
IF the jack fails and hurts you, you were not following safe working practices.
how can this stance / position / situation be avoided by Land Rover...?
Well Bruce why not raise it (excuse the pun) with Pete on here
no doubt that Pete can read & also comprehend the gravity (excuse the pun also)...its an issue that is there, not a random one, but a repeat of others who have suffered the same situation...a collapsed jack....with a corner of a 2.7 tonne D3/4 on it...a very serious situation.
Lets just put this in context:
1) if the vehicle jack wasn't supplied & you had to buy it your self:
you'd get or have supplied to a specification - height & mass (weight in Kgs) to be lifted - suitable for jacking a D3/4.....a known situation.
you'd go to a reputable supplier & buy one that meets the specification...job done
if you didn't do this.....risk all yours
or
you could use any old jack / not to a specification...risk still all yours
2) the vehicle jack is designed, made (for), supplied & considered suitable for the task in hand - jacking a D3/4: risk NOT yours....someone else has done his sums, done the drawings had one made (in volume)...comes with the car.
there are various statutes that deem the responsibility / risk not yours
if it isn't like this please tell me..
as an example
- if it were the brakes that didn't work
or
- the doors fell off
or
- something else that was prejudicial to your personal safety & the integrity of the vehicle (like how do you get it back "up" when the jack has collapsed ?)
it would be a major product recall...
I just hope it doesn't happen that one of the guys on here (or maybe not on here) has it happen & there is an accident...that incurs injury or worse.
I wouldn't & couldn't defend the situation ethically (or for that matter professionally as an engineer).....I look after lifting gear at work (HSE - LOLER regulations)..all lifting kit (including jacks) have to be suitable for the task in hand, used properly, tested before use, inspected periodically, insured etc...very clear situation. A failed piece of lifting gear means we have to report it to the HSE.
They all have a known safe working load...or are subject to a WLL (working Load Limit) where we massively over specify the kit just to be certain we are miles (or more correctly kgs) away from a lift failure at any time.
It would be great that LandRover actually answer this thread & state the position they have adopted - with respect to the product liability situation they clearly have - both here & abroad.
3) This isn't a vehicle service issue (usually & in most cases) quite incorrectly sorted by dealers...none of the service schedules I have seen either inspect the jack or for that matter lubricate it. 4) there isn't a number of actual uses stipulation- that would err on the side of safety to prevent a worn jack having the nut that mates with the thread becoming worn & failing..
Not replying is to me an indication of irresponsibility.....gravity hasn't been known to fail as far as I know.....yet....unless other D3/4 owners can invoke levitation it can & probably will happen to them.......all are at risk when user the OEM supplied vehicle jack.
I would like to think & hope that all the words on here either prevent some unlucky sod or potential users - actually any D3/4 user being injured or coming to grief...if they do brilliantBREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
8th Jun 2014 10:23 pm
Redgull
Member Since: 30 Aug 2013
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 1127
hi, going to buy a bottle jack, what height does it need to go up to get the wheel off, loads on ebay, is 350mm high enough???
8th Jun 2014 10:30 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23391
I wonder how often the ground is perfectly level when these jacks are used for changing a wheel at the roadside?
I've used the LR jack a few times, as with all jacks, unless I've got the vehicle on axle stands or similar I make sure I'm not in a position to get hurt if the jack collapses.2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography
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, I'll just go check the one in the garage...................Yep it works 
