DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Autoglass say Pilkinton won't release Optikool screens

NJSS

Member Since: 06 May 2009
Location: Catherington, Hampshire.
Posts: 10508

2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 Landmark LE Auto Waitomo Grey

Some years ago a had a Mercedes & when the windscreen needed replacement the dealers said if a non-OEM windscreen was fitted it would reduce the residual value of the car. I used this to persuade my insurers to pay for an OEM windscreen.

Before renewal I think we should all approach our insurers, and get confirmation of their policy on new windscreens - if unacceptable go elsewhere.

NJSS Am I Gammon or Woke ? - I neither know nor care.

2016 Discovery 4 Landmark
2011 Mercedes Benz SL350 (R230)
1973 MG B GT V8 - 3.9L John Eales engine, 5 speed R380 gearbox, since 1975.
1959 MGA roadster - 1.9L Peter Burgess Engine - 5 speed gearbox
Past LRs - Multiple FFRs, Discos & a Series I - some petrol, some diesel,
none Electric or H2 fuel cell - yet.
There are 10 types of people in this world: Those who understand binary, and those who don’t.

8th Jul 2014 10:40 am

DG
Site Moderator

Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50949

euangibson wrote:

Does anyone know if your insurance docs say who your windscreen cover is with ?

LRI guarantee genuine OEM parts

21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021

8th Jul 2014 10:50 am

euangibson

Member Since: 24 Dec 2010
Location: Borders
Posts: 11027

2012 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Firenze Red

Cheers DG I'd never thought to look before.....as NJSS points out,I will now.....

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool,than to speak out and remove all doubt" ?.....what rubbish...

Locking rear E-diff
RLD spare wheel protector & sump guard
Extended roof rails
Series 111 mudflaps
Black side tubes,grill and vents
Timed climate remote
Hids4u interior lights

D4 Firenze my2012 HSE
D3 Java 2005 SE manual (sold,sadly,thanks for the memories)
1966 '88 Series 2a....still starts in the morning better than I do...

8th Jul 2014 10:55 am

Scarab

Member Since: 11 Jun 2011
Location: Hastings
Posts: 1283

2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Buckingham Blue

I'm with Admiral and just used their online service to ask the question which company they use to provide windscreen replacement, apparently they only use National Windscreens who will provide an "OEM Quality" Windscreen as only cars under 3 years old get Original OEM Branded.

I asked if this means Pilkington Opticool minus the LR Branding but they said I'd have to take that up with National Windscreens in the event of a claim

8th Jul 2014 11:02 am

BLFarrar

Member Since: 02 Aug 2006
Location: Deepest, Dankest, Darkest, Dingiest......Le Halifax, West Yorkshire...with strong links to Ireland
Posts: 6222

2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Lugano Teal

Just for the record...

my D3 is 8 going on 9.....National Windscreen didn't say anything about under or over 3 years...
I just insisted & they realised I would do my own thing anyway....
My insurers said they would honour the claim of me paying for the screen + labour less excess...Allianz BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.

8th Jul 2014 7:31 pm

Barn1e
D3 Decade

Member Since: 28 Aug 2006
Location: Mid-sussex
Posts: 2021

2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Auto Tonga Green

I know this is heresy, but is there any evidence that a screen like Shaterprufe is actually going to cause a problem if fitted? What does the Pilkington version offer that is different (cooler interior?)

I will go and get my coat, just in case .... 2005, TDV6 S, Auto, 190k miles, owned from new, V8 Brake Upgrade, Nancom Evo, RLD protector, BAS EGR blanking & Remap, separate ATF cooler, changing all the fluids ahead of time.

8th Jul 2014 8:21 pm

Moo
D3 Decade

Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13943

2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Manual Zambezi Silver

I have non OEM and have not noticed a difference. The heated screen worked perfectly through the winter as well.

8th Jul 2014 9:25 pm

paulmeryan

Member Since: 15 Aug 2011
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 742

AG didn't call today as promised. Wasn't holding my breath so I'm alright.

My Privilege policy says they use AG and where the policy holder wants to use another fitter they cover you up to Â£120 excluding your excess. Meh!

Part of me wants to relent and just get a new windscreen. As to whether some brands are better than others if they meet the same specification I would say the fact other screens meet the same safety and functional specifications does not guarantee equal quality. Pain relief tablets are a bit more straight forward as the generic and branded product are functionally identical and that's all there is to it. With the windscreen in our cars it's not just that the Optikool might exceed these standards by more than other screens, they may be different in other ways too, which is where it gets subjective.

My issue with this is that the alternative is an unknown quantity and I don't know what it will be like whereas I do know the Optikool. Someone has reported the alternative they had fitted takes on a particular hue in bright light. I don't recall what make their screen was but I do know the Optikool doesn't do this and I'll be happy with the same again. My car my choice. Others have theirs. I am not happy to settle for an unknown quantity so insurance company executives can go on rewarding themselves ever more handsomely for racing to the bottom at the expense of everyone less mercenary than them.

If you have tyre insurance you will expect like for like replacements even though a budget tyre meets the same minimum specification as a premium tyre. We reasonably expect parts to be replaced with the same parts rather than being exploited for profit. I don't buy either that windscreen cover is free, like we're supposed to be grateful to insurers for not being straight with us and giving us a clear choice. Free! Really?

Maybe we should all read the policies more closely and consider thoughtfully before signing anything but we might run out of lifetime before declining the iTunes T&C. Or companies could just behave like a decent human being would by making it clear for certain drivers their standard 'free' windscreen cover might be less suitable and you are free to go elsewhere or upgrade, but they play the angles instead because some of us will. Buying and selling stuff doesn't have to be fraught with tricks and traps. Even Ryanair has learned this lesson. Took them

long enough mind. VR6 > 330D Touring > D3 HSE > !?XC90?!

9th Jul 2014 12:11 am

crews control

Member Since: 18 Mar 2007
Location: Dorset
Posts: 5011

2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Lux Auto Waitomo Grey

Well said.

Do insurance companies replace any other parts on our cars with cheaper copies? If your car came back from the body shop with doors which werenâ€™t as thick, would that be okay?

Feels like weâ€™re being conned again!

9th Jul 2014 12:37 am

DG
Site Moderator

Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50949

As Pilkington holds all the patents for the technical thinness, strength and reflective composition for Optikool glass I can't see a Chinese copy being anywhere near the same technical standard other than perhaps being able to see through it

21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021

9th Jul 2014 8:11 am

euangibson

Member Since: 24 Dec 2010
Location: Borders
Posts: 11027

I'll be the first to acknowledge that car forums will probably focus on downsides more regularly than upsides ....but a quick Google of FY glass reveals that we are not alone.....in particular BMW and VW owners on car forums in the States seem to be having the same debate...... "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool,than to speak out and remove all doubt" ?.....what rubbish...

Locking rear E-diff
RLD spare wheel protector & sump guard
Extended roof rails
Series 111 mudflaps
Black side tubes,grill and vents
Timed climate remote
Hids4u interior lights

D4 Firenze my2012 HSE
D3 Java 2005 SE manual (sold,sadly,thanks for the memories)
1966 '88 Series 2a....still starts in the morning better than I do...

9th Jul 2014 8:12 am

euangibson

Member Since: 24 Dec 2010
Location: Borders
Posts: 11027

DG wrote:
As Pilkington holds all the patents for the technical thinness, strength and reflective composition for Optikool glass I can't see a Chinese copy being anywhere near the same technical standard other than perhaps being able to see through it

Personally speaking (and I'm not commenting on other makes,as I have no experience of them) I'm a bit choosy what I put between my kids faces and a stone at 70mph...... "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool,than to speak out and remove all doubt" ?.....what rubbish...

Locking rear E-diff
RLD spare wheel protector & sump guard
Extended roof rails
Series 111 mudflaps
Black side tubes,grill and vents
Timed climate remote
Hids4u interior lights

D4 Firenze my2012 HSE
D3 Java 2005 SE manual (sold,sadly,thanks for the memories)
1966 '88 Series 2a....still starts in the morning better than I do...

9th Jul 2014 8:14 am

BLFarrar

Member Since: 02 Aug 2006
Location: Deepest, Dankest, Darkest, Dingiest......Le Halifax, West Yorkshire...with strong links to Ireland
Posts: 6222

DG wrote:
As Pilkington holds all the patents for the technical thinness, strength and reflective composition for Optikool glass I can't see a Chinese copy being anywhere near the same technical standard other than perhaps being able to see through it

what puzzles me about non OEM screens is:
1) how can they make these & sell them to windscreen companies in the UK without breeching some manufacturing rights (Patent, copyright, registered design...Ford have this according to Espacnet & a patent search) ?
2) have they got CE markings ?...if they haven't how can these be sold used on the UK market
in the grand scheme of things how can they make a direct clone copy with screen heating & not breech the Ford patent on this ?
4) do they meet the BS kite marking specifications ?
5) wherever they are made how can they make that many to make it profitable ?....selling against OEM Pilkingtons ones.
6) is there really a factory somewhere that makes all of them ?...some marked LR - Pilkingtons...& then the next batch...without these & some other brand X name & then sell them cheaper & in competition. with all of the above in vogue (Patents, copyright, registered design, CE markings, BS kite marks)...obviously made to a lower sale price & possibly not to the OEM standard ?
7) are LR challenging the supply of Brand X parts such as windscreens into the market ?...if they arent why arent whoever has to ? trading standards maybe ...if these are indeed Chinese ones
8) who actually makes the screens that arent OEM
can those with these post on here & tell us the makes so the credentials can be checked out...

Bug.ger me why do the owners / users have to be the guardians of the situation & vote with their feet in refusing these none OEM items...we ought to be backing the Pilkingtons OEM ones & protect our UK (all the UK) jobs BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.

13th Jul 2014 9:35 am

NoDo$h

Member Since: 02 May 2006
Location: Finding new and exciting ways to milk badgers.
Posts: 19689

crews control wrote:
Well said.
Do insurance companies replace any other parts on our cars with cheaper copies? If your car came back from the body shop with doors which werenâ€™t as thick, would that be okay?

Feels like weâ€™re being conned again!

Oh dear...... Not sure how to break this one to you, but if you read the T&Cs of many policies that's exactly what you will get in many instances; pattern aftermarket parts. I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.

13th Jul 2014 10:06 am

BLFarrar

Member Since: 02 Aug 2006
Location: Deepest, Dankest, Darkest, Dingiest......Le Halifax, West Yorkshire...with strong links to Ireland
Posts: 6222

NoDo$h

have to agree that non OEM parts are out there...brilliant if you dont want to fork out the full monty for that with the LR badge...if you want to do this

A windscreen to me is a safety part....critical as it was to the makers when they wrote & used the spec to get parts to build D3/4's
...I recall the screens before laminated ones....that when they broke you couldn't see
....bonded laminated ones to just have to be made to the original spec...preferably by the OEM makers
how can 3rd party part makers get it right other than a reverse engineered route...?

do they have all the right credentials ? .....I have to agree that here are other makers out there (StGobain, Sekurit etc) that are viable makers in the their own right....but they arent Pilkington & presumably dont hold the rights to make to the Ford heated screen specification.

only a technicality to me as very recently I insisted & got a Pilkington one...it seemed the stumbling block was National Windscreens & not my brokers or insurance company...windscreen / glazing companies they are there for one thing & one thing only - to make a profit & if this means buying "cheap" & charging dear they will...if they can....if you & me let them

I dont use bargain basement - possibly inferior anything if it compromises what I have & downgrades it or may prejudice the use (my use) & safety (my safety)....my prerogative.

Why let this happen ? BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.

13th Jul 2014 10:45 am