Oil pump casing tensioner mount. Never mind aluminium, they should make them out of titanium.
17%
17%
[15]
Main bearings. Someone removed them and replaced them with cheese
31%
31%
[27]
Oil filter. Installed by someone with the mechanical abilities of Papa Smurf
10%
10%
[9]
Small rip in the space/time continuum caused the engine to temporarily orbit Venus, and the heat stress melted the heads
40%
40%
[35]
Total Votes: 86
garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1115
So you bought the whole wreck rather than just the engine?
1st Apr 2016 12:20 pm
WillyEckerslike
Member Since: 22 Aug 2013
Location: Out in the world
Posts: 967
Yep, $3600.
Territory titanium, first registered last week of Feb 2014, where some poor paid $54000 for it.
Even has a full tank of fuel, and a set of tyres that are only 5000km old.
The roof mounted DVD player (remote control still in glovebox) may well find it's way inside the D3
1st Apr 2016 12:27 pm
garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1115
Hmmm - the Territory - a missed opportunity for Ford to have had a full on 4wd in their lineup rather than the 2wd/AWD version we had.
The Territory was designed about the same time as the D3/RRS and Ford had access to the same 4wd technology that went into the D3.
I think that a Territory with the TDV6 (or even the Ford petrol 6 cylinder turbo), air suspension and terrain response would have been a good seller here. Given the body shape and size it would have been more of a RRS style rather than D3 but the Territory still did have 3rd row seats for midgets.
What could have been for the home grown product.
Oh - sort of back to the topic - does the Ford Territory TDV6 ECU need to talk to the body like it does in the D3 etc? That is - is the ECU a stand alone ECU?
Garry
2nd Apr 2016 2:27 am
WillyEckerslike
Member Since: 22 Aug 2013
Location: Out in the world
Posts: 967
They've tried to put a lot of it in the new Everest, but I agree, they could have made a lot more of the Territory than they did.
The Territory isn't quite as complex as the D3, but the powertrain module talks to the body control system in the same way. All looks and feels very similar to the Land Rover systems, which I expect it would if Ford had been in charge of development from the D3, leading up to the D4.
Got a bit distracted this morning, trying to reassemble the busted front passenger side suspension, to make it a bit easier to move around.
One thing I noticed, there is a big difference in quality, the parts are much more lightweight, the way the control arms fit to the body much more flimsy. Metal thickness has been shaved everywhere. But hey, I've only got to steal the bits I need, then flog the rest on.
2nd Apr 2016 4:37 am
WillyEckerslike
Member Since: 22 Aug 2013
Location: Out in the world
Posts: 967
Well as ol' Rabbie Burns once wrote....the best laid schemes o' mice an' men....
Spent yesterday on the dented Territory trying to work out why the damned thing runs then cuts out after only a second or two, and won't restart until you do the whole reprime routine. Error message was "injection pressure low" or something similar.
Dropped the tank, messed around with the low pressure pump (worked fine), the fuel filter, and finally traced the fuel lines (metal pipe at the back of the engine bay) to find that one had been damaged either by the accident, or by being forklifted in the salvage yard.
I wanted to make sure the engine runs perfectly before going to the effort of transplanting it to the D3. Got to just take a chance now.
What a waste of a day!
Engine bay strip down started today though. Much, much easier than the engine bay on the D3. I thought about inviting the neighbours over and having a party in there.
5th Apr 2016 9:04 am
WillyEckerslike
Member Since: 22 Aug 2013
Location: Out in the world
Posts: 967
It doesn't really show up in the picture, but there's a good 18 inches of space in front of the pulleys and maybe 5 inches behind the back of the heads. Luxury I tells you!
5th Apr 2016 9:07 am
hugeviking
Member Since: 08 Jun 2010
Location: cotswolds
Posts: 1482
garrycol wrote:
Broken cranks - consensus seems to be spun big end bearings up in some of the front conrods leading to crank failure in the front half of the crank.
Main reason for these spun bearings is lack of tabs on the shells which in some circumstances lead to them being able to move. (I think but am not sure that later engines post 07 have tabs in them and this does include the version in the Territory making them a good swap.
Now I have heard of loose big end nut/bolts, poor oil etc in engines with lower km that has been the cause, but as engines are getting to higher kms it is also becoming a more common occurance.
In this case my thought is the issue is simple normal wear in the bearing shells - at some where around 200,000km even with the correct oil and oil changes the bearings will have substantial wear opening up the gap between the crank journal and the bearings - all normal as an engine wears but due to the genius who designed these without tabs the clamping force that holds the bearings in place is not longer there due to increased gap and they start to move and sooner or later spin and the conrods then place shock loads on the crank that it was not designed to take and sooner or later breaks.
My thoughts - what are the thoughts of the learned formites - we are not talking about early failures but those which occur with high kms on them and apparently have been correctly serviced.
Garry
Not sure i agree that the bearing clamps around the journal. If that was the case the crank would be very difficult to turn when the bearing was new and unworn.
Surely, the clamping forces are between the outside of the bearing shells and the block/bearing cap.
Andi.[/u]
5th Apr 2016 8:37 pm
garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1115
Just a play on words - anyone who has built engines will know what I mean.
When you build up an engine you buy bearings to match the crank journal size - you put a piece of plastigauge across the bearing and torque up the bearing cap and the measure how much the plastigauge has spread indicating the clearance between the bearing and the journal. In a new engine the bearings (no tabs) stay in place essentially by the bearing caps being tightened up on the conrod or block.
I am suggesting that as the bearing wears the gap between the bearing and the journal slowing increases with the wear (would show up if you could do another plastigauge test) but because the bearing cap is torqued up on its face to the conrod or block the effective pressure holding the bearing in place is reduced allowing it to move in some cases - the bearing may still loosen a little if it had tabs but would be preventing from spinning and grabbing the crankshaft and or having enough wear to allow the crankshaft to flex and fatiguing it until it breaks.
This is my theory - if anyone disagrees and has another theory on why a crankshaft can break in a a running engine with all other parameters in spec let us hear it.
Garry
6th Apr 2016 1:21 am
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20733
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1115
The sad thing is that most engines as they get older, age gracefully, a little fart here, a little smoke, a little bit of a rattle but they keep on running with components wearing out rather than breaking - but with the TDV6 it seams that when the wear in the main/bigend bearings get to much the pounding of the pistons gets too much and the shocks fatigue the crank and it gives up the ghost big time rather than just fading away. Unfortunately in many cases it takes out the inside of the block as well resulting in a new engine, even if a new crank is available.
I guess a function of our throw away society.
That article mentions oil issues as a cause of spun bearings and I guess that is reasonable for low km engines that have just failed but most of the higher km engines have been serviced correctly, with the right oil and are failing - to me this is use related wear rather than oil issues.
The article says the tabs are not relevant - but why did LR go back to using them in the 3.0s if they are not really needed.
garry
6th Apr 2016 12:45 pm
hugeviking
Member Since: 08 Jun 2010
Location: cotswolds
Posts: 1482
Thanks DM
I thought the bearings would be secured on their outside surface. In which case as the bearing/journal surface wears, the journals "grab" on the bearing would be reduced and therefore the chance of a spun bearing is actually reduced.
Until the wear is so bad the knocking starts
Must agree, why have tabbed bearings been re-introduced on D4.
If, because of a faulty thrust bearing ?, the crank could move forwards/rearwards, could anything contact the side face of a bearing and cause rotation ?
Thoughts
Andi.
6th Apr 2016 7:08 pm
WillyEckerslike
Member Since: 22 Aug 2013
Location: Out in the world
Posts: 967
Had some time over the last couple of days. Dragged the D3 round to my mate's shed, and managed to peel it. (insert obligatory dismantled D3 shot here )
And dragged the nice, sparkling clean engine out of the Territory using my mate's Bobcat.
Tomorrow's job....yank the broken lump out of the D3 chassis, and swap all the incompatible Land Rover and Ford bits over...ready to drop the body back on, on Saturday.
21st Apr 2016 9:38 am
WillyEckerslike
Member Since: 22 Aug 2013
Location: Out in the world
Posts: 967
And Robbie.....look away. You won't like my mate's method of organisation in his shed. His method is to keep chucking stuff in there, until the doors won't close any more.
21st Apr 2016 9:41 am
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26705
My kind of shed
21st Apr 2016 10:27 am
WillyEckerslike
Member Since: 22 Aug 2013
Location: Out in the world
Posts: 967
Click image to enlarge
Ok, so it took an extra two days (but that included half a day rewrapping the engine loom and replacing the brittle corrugated loom covering), but the Ford lump went in with all the necessary LR bits bolted on, and the body dropped back on ok.
And the most satisfying part? It started first turn of the key.
Bit of an uneven idle for the first 30 seconds, but then it ran beautifully.
Very, very happy indeed. If I was physically able, I would have done back flips around the shed.
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paid $54000 for it.
