Member Since: 29 Nov 2009
Location: cheshire
Posts: 16
Water ingress in drivers side footwell?
So the other day i happened to look under the rubber mat on the drivers side to find standing water underneath! ('')
First job was to lift up carpet by removing trim etc. ABSOLUTELY loads of water! the foam behind the carpet is like a sponge!
Second job get on Disco3.co.uk and see if that has happened to anyone else. Turns out lots of people!
Seems that there are 3 potential reasons:
The main reason seems to be blocked sunroof drains. Doesnt appear to be this as above sun visor and down pillar is dry. also i poured water down channels and water came out of behind front wheel arch straight away.
The horizontal sound proofing behind pedals under carpet on bulkhead is sodden so it seems as though water is running down there and pooling in footwell. So perhaps not this cause.
The other possible causes when searching on here are broken brackets on covers of pillars either side of windscreen on the outside if windscreen has been replaced. The windscreen is original and also people with this problem report water coming from behind air vents? and the last option is the rubber seal between bottom of windscreen and plastic cover that runs under window and around window wipers. There doesnt seem to be any physical gaps and seems tight as its ever been, but perhaps the reason for the water coming in from the bulkhead.
so before i start ripping things out and make more problems for myself can anyone point me in another direction. or suggest further tests????
Help, its still raining!!!
27th Apr 2012 8:31 am
tepidboy
Member Since: 29 Nov 2009
Location: cheshire
Posts: 16
anyone?!
30th Apr 2012 9:50 pm
grahamk
Member Since: 28 Feb 2010
Location: Dumgoyne
Posts: 1473
Hi there, I have heard of a good few problems with air conditioning condensation working its way back into the car, I am sure someone on here must have had issues that have not been caused by the sunroof.
5th May 2012 7:59 am
DiscoDunc
Member Since: 08 May 2006
Location: Bristol
Posts: 16390
the sunroof pipes can leak from behind the dash if the drain tubes are blocked at the bottom, or have come undo if someone has been a bit aggressive in trying the clear them. you wont necessariy get water running down the A-pillar.
first thing to do is to check the tubes are clear. I use some wire rope and just feed it down the tube twisting as you go.
i would try that first. If the water is in the drivers side footwell, up against the door and accelerator area then i would say it is definatly the drain tubes. you need to lift the carpets on the right hand side and syphon out the water as the floor pan can hold a mimimum of 500ml to the front right of the seat and submerges some of the electrics cablesDuncan
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5th May 2012 9:02 am
tepidboy
Member Since: 29 Nov 2009
Location: cheshire
Posts: 16
Thanks for the reply.
When I pour water from the sunroof I do get plenty of water running out of the front wheel arch. If it was blocked then surely nothing would come out or perhaps some with a delay?
What do you reckon?
5th May 2012 8:06 pm
tepidboy
Member Since: 29 Nov 2009
Location: cheshire
Posts: 16
Ahhh its happening again!
This is killing me know. the leak is back and i cant stop it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i cant for the life of me work out where this effing water is coming from.
Things ive tried:
The heat exchange is dry.
The front window hasnt been changed so discounts the outside left and right covers letting water in.
There is no visible gap at the bottom of the window between the glass and the rubber cover.
The sunroof drain appears to be clear as water freely runs through when poured from the top. (Does the LHS tube run down the left and the right on the RHS?)
Ive trawled through the forum and cant find any other possibilities!!
Help as its starting to smell !!!
17th Dec 2012 9:21 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
I'd buy a set of A-pillar trim clips (because they break on removal), then pry off the trim and have a look underneath. I seem to recall that the TSB just covers any exposed holes underneath with tape.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 50
Have you checked the rubber seal between the door and body frame? I had water collecting in the foot well and fixed it by replacing the seal which starts at the bottom of the front windscreen and finishes at the rear wheel arch.
MulacCalum
17th Dec 2012 9:55 pm
tepidboy
Member Since: 29 Nov 2009
Location: cheshire
Posts: 16
Hey thanks for the tips.
So are these the internal a-pillar covers or external?
Also Calum555 what should I be looking for on the rubber? What would tell me if it needs renewing?
17th Dec 2012 10:01 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
They are the external bits of trim either side of the windscreen.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Water drainage system
If a vehicle develops water leaks, then areas into which water is routed or drained should be checked first.
Water leaks, diagnosis and corrective action: Front passenger compartment Windscreen
⣠Diagnosis: Ingress of water into A-pillar area or instrument cluster area and rocker panel area. ⣠Ingress of water into A-pillar area or instrument cluster area and rocker panel area.
⣠Cause: Breaks in adhesive beads ⣠Breaks in adhesive beads
⣠Corrective action: The breaks in adhesive beads can be located from inside by using compressed air. The leak can be identified from outside by the escaping air. The second test method is by means of awater test. The outer trims must be raised carefully using a plastic wedge. The leak should be located from inside by a second assistant.
⣠The breaks in adhesive beads can be located from inside by using compressed air. The leak can be identified from outside by the escaping air.
⣠The second test method is by means of awater test. The outer trims must be raised carefully using a plastic wedge. The leak should be located from inside by a second assistant.
Side windows
In the case of side windows, the same problems can arise as for a windscreen. The same corrective actions must therefore be used.
Door seal
⣠Diagnosis: Wateringress in the lower part of the interior door trim or in the rocker panel area. ⣠Wateringress in the lower part of the interior door trim or in the rocker panel area.
⣠Cause: The water shield fitted behind the interior door trim exists to drain off water that has entered the door via the drainage holes, either downwards or outwards. If the water shield seal is damaged or has been fitted incorrectly, then water can get into the passenger compartment. In addition to this, the drainage holes can become clogged with leaves, dirt or excess cavity protection agents. Water gathers in the door and ingresses into the passenger compartment. Check water shield for damage or correct fitting. If the water shield needs to be re-bonded, then approved seam sealer should be used. Before the water shield is installed, the drainage holes must be checked for unhindered flow.
⣠The water shield fitted behind the interior door trim exists to drain off water that has entered the door via the drainage holes, either downwards or outwards. If the water shield seal is damaged or has been fitted incorrectly, then water can get into the passenger compartment.
⣠In addition to this, the drainage holes can become clogged with leaves, dirt or excess cavity protection agents. Water gathers in the door and ingresses into the passenger compartment.
⣠Check water shield for damage or correct fitting. ⣠If the water shield needs to be re-bonded, then approved seam sealer should be used. ⣠Before the water shield is installed, the drainage holes must be checked for unhindered flow.
Door seals
⣠Diagnosis: Ingress of water into the rocker panel area ⣠Ingress of water into the rocker panel area
⣠Cause: Insufficient clamping load between seal and door. ⣠Insufficient clamping load between seal and door.
⣠Corrective action: Check clamping load: The easiest way to check the clamping load of a seal to the respective bearing surface is by means of a paper strip test. This consists of trapping strips of paper at various points between the door and the seal, and fully closing the door. If it is possible to pull out the paper with no great resistance, then the clamping load is too low. Adjust the clamping load: NOTE :
When adjusting the clamping load, the profile alignment of the relevant components must always be taken into consideration.
The clamping load is normally adjusted using the striker. When doing so, the edge alignment from the door to the side panel, or from the front door to the rear door must be taken into account. Another setting method is to realign the panel flange for the seal mounting. The clamping load is increased by moving the flange towards the door. NOTE :
Do not realign the flange too far in the direction of the door, as this can reduce the bearing surface of the seal to the door.
Check the bearing surface: Apply chalk evenly to the surface of the seal. Evenly coat the bearing surface of the door with vaseline. Close the door fully, the lock must engage. Open the door. The imprint of the chalk (bearing surface) can be identified in the film of grease. The bearing surface should be at least 5mm across at all points.
⣠Check clamping load: ⣠The easiest way to check the clamping load of a seal to the respective bearing surface is by means of
a paper strip test. This consists of trapping strips of paper at various points between the door and the seal, and fully closing the door. If it is possible to pull out the paper with no great resistance, then the clamping load is too low.
⣠Adjust the clamping load: ⣠NOTE :
When adjusting the clamping load, the profile alignment of the relevant components must always be taken into consideration.
The clamping load is normally adjusted using the striker. When doing so, the edge alignment from the
door to the side panel, or from the front door to the rear door must be taken into account. ⣠Another setting method is to realign the panel flange for the seal mounting. The clamping load is
increased by moving the flange towards the door.
⣠NOTE :
Do not realign the flange too far in the direction of the door, as this can reduce the bearing surface of the seal to the door.
Check the bearing surface: ⣠Apply chalk evenly to the surface of the seal. Evenly coat the bearing surface of the door with
vaseline. ⣠Close the door fully, the lock must engage. Open the door. The imprint of the chalk (bearing surface)
can be identified in the film of grease. ⣠The bearing surface should be at least 5mm across at all points.
⣠Other causes: The door seal must completely seal the door where it meets the bodywork. Water can ingress directly or indirectly into the interior of the vehicle if the seal is damaged at any point.
⣠The door seal must completely seal the door where it meets the bodywork. ⣠Water can ingress directly or indirectly into the interior of the vehicle if the seal is damaged at any
point. ⣠Corrective action: A damaged or worn door seal must always be renewed in full. When renewing the seal, the
following must be taken into account: Always fit the seal first in the area of the narrow radii (corner points). Next, secure the seal to the flange evenly by tapping lightly with a rubber hammer. The installed seal must not be kinked at any point.
⣠A damaged or worn door seal must always be renewed in full. ⣠When renewing the seal, the following must be taken into account: ⣠Always fit the seal first in the area of the narrow radii (corner points). ⣠Next, secure the seal to the flange evenly by tapping lightly with a rubber hammer. The installed seal
must not be kinked at any point. The prescribed length of a seal must not be shortened.
NOTE :
⣠Other cause: The door seal is attached to the welded flange all the way round. If this welded flange is uneven or damaged at any point (usually in areas with narrow radii) then this point could be subject to leaks. A stretched seal carrier can also cause a leak. In both cases, water gets into the vehicle interior under the seal carrier.
⣠The door seal is attached to the welded flange all the way round. If this welded flange is uneven or damaged at any point (usually in areas with narrow radii) then this point could be subject to leaks.
⣠A stretched seal carrier can also cause a leak.
⣠In both cases, water gets into the vehicle interior under the seal carrier. ⣠Corrective action: Align the deformed welded flange using a hammer and anvil block, prevent and if
necessary repair any paint damage. ⣠Align the deformed welded flange using a hammer and anvil block, prevent and if necessary repair
any paint damage.
⣠Other cause: The door seal is attached to the welded flange all the way round. If this welded flange is uneven or damaged at any point (usually in areas with narrow radii) then this point could be subject to leaks. A stretched seal carrier can also cause a leak. In both cases, water gets into the vehicle interior under the seal carrier.
⣠The door seal is attached to the welded flange all the way round. If this welded flange is uneven or damaged at any point (usually in areas with narrow radii) then this point could be subject to leaks.
⣠A stretched seal carrier can also cause a leak. ⣠In both cases, water gets into the vehicle interior under the seal carrier.
Sliding roof/tilting roof
⣠Diagnosis: Ingress of water at sliding roof aperture ⣠Ingress of water at sliding roof aperture
⣠Cause: The sliding roof/tilting roof is installed in awater trap. The water drains off via the water trap, water drain holes and drain hoses. The drain hoses lead downwards on both sides via the A-pillar and C-pillar. The drain holes or drain hoses can become clogged with leaves, dirt, underbody protection and so on.
⣠The sliding roof/tilting roof is installed in awater trap. The water drains off via the water trap, water drain holes and drain hoses. The drain hoses lead downwards on both sides via the A-pillar and C- pillar.
⣠The drain holes or drain hoses can become clogged with leaves, dirt, underbody protection and so on. ⣠Corrective action: NOTE :
In the case of a sliding or tilting roof, the external rubber seal and the lock actuator or latch mechanism must be checked first of all.
Check the water trap for leaks. Check the drain hoses for leaks and for correct connection to the water trap. Check the drainage system for unhindered flow, and blow out with compressed air if necessary. Check the external seal and the correct adjustment of the sliding roof.
⣠NOTE :
In the case of a sliding or tilting roof, the external rubber seal and the lock actuator or latch mechanism must be checked first of all.
Check the water trap for leaks. ⣠Check the drain hoses for leaks and for correct connection to the water trap. ⣠Check the drainage system for unhindered flow, and blow out with compressed air if necessary. ⣠Check the external seal and the correct adjustment of the sliding roof.
Tailgate and Liftgate
⣠Diagnosis: Ingress of water into rear headlining area and luggage area. ⣠Ingress of water into rear headlining area and luggage area.
⣠Cause: The leak problems of the tailgate and liftgate correspond to those of the doors. In addition to this, the area to be sealed is much bigger. The routing holes for cables and hoses must also be sealed. The rubber grommets for the routing holes must be checked for damage and correct seating (fully unhooked). The mounting points of the tailgate and liftgate hinges may leak.
⣠The leak problems of the tailgate and liftgate correspond to those of the doors. ⣠In addition to this, the area to be sealed is much bigger. The routing holes for cables and hoses must
also be sealed. ⣠The rubber grommets for the routing holes must be checked for damage and correct seating (fully
unhooked). ⣠The mounting points of the tailgate and liftgate hinges may leak.
⣠Corrective action: Check the rubber grommets and renew if necessary. Check the hinge mounting points, and re-seal with sealing compound if necessary.
⣠Check the rubber grommets and renew if necessary. ⣠Check the hinge mounting points, and re-seal with sealing compound if necessary.
Forced air extraction
⣠Diagnosis: Ingress of water into side luggage compartment area ⣠Ingress of water into side luggage compartment area
⣠Cause: The forced air extraction for the vehicle interior is located in the D-pillar behind the rear lights. The rubber flap of the forced air extraction must be able to move freely.
⣠The forced air extraction for the vehicle interior is located in the D-pillar behind the rear lights.
⣠The rubber flap of the forced air extraction must be able to move freely. ⣠Corrective action: Remove the forced air extraction. Check the seal area between the bodywork and housing,
as well as the rubber flap. Renew seal if necessary. ⣠Remove the forced air extraction. ⣠Check the seal area between the bodywork and housing, as well as the rubber flap. ⣠Renew seal if necessary.
Rear window and moon roof
⣠Diagnosis: Ingress of water into the luggage compartment area ⣠Ingress of water into the luggage compartment area
⣠Cause: Rear window and moon roof leaking. Check for leak in the same way as for leaking windscreen. ⣠Rear window and moon roof leaking. ⣠Check for leak in the same way as for leaking windscreen.
Panel connections with seal welds
⣠Diagnosis: Ingress of water into the luggage compartment area ⣠Ingress of water into the luggage compartment area
⣠Cause: Several panel connections must be fitted in production in the wheelhouse and luggage compartment areas. These connections are sealed with sealing compound. Uneven application of sealing compound can lead to a break in a seal weld.
⣠Several panel connections must be fitted in production in the wheelhouse and luggage compartment areas. These connections are sealed with sealing compound.
⣠Uneven application of sealing compound can lead to a break in a seal weld. ⣠Corrective action: Expose the seal weld. Locate the leak in the seal weld. Re-seal using sealing compound.
⣠Expose the seal weld. ⣠Locate the leak in the seal weld. ⣠Re-seal using sealing compound.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
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